J-15 carrier fighter thread
- Thread starter Jeff Head
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That JH-7A picture is a rather old (and obvious) PS job.
As for Su-30MKI, we've seen models of them carrying Brahmos under their wings but we've never actually seen them fielded with them in real life. I personally would think that model is a potentially dodgy or misinformed marketing mistake.
SinoSoldier
Colonel
The JH-7A photo is clearly doctored.
As for the Su-30MKI (which is not what the aircraft model shows):
Why is it clearly doctored? Do you have the original photo? As for that website, this is by no means a statement that the Su-30MKI cannot carry 3 Brahmos missiles.
This is the same logical fallacy that claims that J-15 cannot perform strike missions off a ski ramp just because we haven't seen it yet. The Brahmos itself is barely integrated with the Su-30MKI, and you already expect to see 3 missiles hanging off the fighter. Let me ask you this: how many photos do you have of an AIRBORNE Su-30MKI with just ONE (centerline) Brahmos?
SinoSoldier
Colonel
Do we really need an original to see, from the contrasting tones and shadows, that the image had been blatantly PhotoShopped?
Until you get photo evidence of a Su-30MKI flying with three underslung BrahMos missiles, a haphazardly-crafted model of a generic Flanker does not constitute a substantiative argument. The model is not necessarily representative of a realistic eventuality, especially if it was made by the manufacturer to show that the BrahMos can merely be air-launched.
And you are arguing a YJ-12 cannot be carried under a wing because of.... what? It's too heavy? How do you know what the capacity of a wing mount is?
You are saying the model is "not necessarily representative" of a "realistic eventuality", but can you actually give a legitimate counterargument against this model's representation besides your personal opinion of a fighter wing's weight limit?
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SinoSoldier
Colonel
The YJ-12 is a 2.5-ton missile. It doesn't take much to see that this kind of payload exceeds anything ever carried on a wing pylon of a Flanker-sized fighter.
The Su-30MKI, a fighter roughly in the same weight and size class as the J-15, can only carry one BrahMos missile under its centerline hardpoint. To further this point, the manufacturer of the BrahMos is developing an "NG" variant, which is essentially a scaled-down 1.5-ton variant of the missile that would be specially slated for fighter carriage.
So far, the only aircraft whose wings have the capability to mount the YJ-12 is the H-6.
It made the rounds on the forums a year or so back and an original photo was located, demonstrating it was indeed a PS. I'll see if I can find the original photo, but until then I think you can trust my word on this one. (edit: Sinosoldier posted it)
As for being "clearly doctored" -- honestly, I can't describe it. It's like a sixth sense after nearly a decade of looking at PSed and potentially PSed pictures of PLA equipment that I (and I'm sure other people here) have been able to pick up on obvious PS jobs pretty easily.
The missile and the aircraft are different textures, the light hits them differently, in fact the missile looks like a PS from a drawing or CGI compared to the aircraft itself.
That is a fair point, however in this case we do have official statements from the IAF saying Su-30MKI is only expected to carry one standard (2.5 ton) Brahmos only.
I've heard they may be developing a lighter version of Brahmos so a single Su-30MKI can carry more missiles, but only one standard 2.5 ton missile can be carried on centreline
Fair point, Brahmos is still being integrated with the Su-30MKI and at this stage I think they're still doing initial test flights.
That said, I don't think I've even seen a static display of Su-30MKI+Brahmos where more than one Brahmos is carried, which is what I was referring to in my last post, though I suppose the word "fielded" is not correct in that regard.
edit: btw I can see I might have waded into some kind of discussion about whether Su-30MKI or a Flanker or a JH-7A "can" carry a Brahmos or YJ-12 or whatever on their wings... at this stage I have no opinion on that. My last post was only to point out that the JH-7A+YJ-12 picture is most definitely a fabrication, and that at this stage we also have not seen any physical indications of real Su-30MKIs being tested (on ground or in air) with more than one 2.5 ton Brahmos either.
SinoSoldier
Colonel
To put it simply:
- The aircraft model does not represent any in-service Flanker
- The model is extremely crude and disproportionate
- The general lack of detail is hard to ignore
- There are very few (if any) other models showing a tri-BrahMos payload
The aforementioned leads me to conclude that the maker of the model is the missile's manufacturer rather than Sukhoi itself (assuming that the model was made by a credible group in the first place). As the onus of missile integration (pertaining to airframe strengthening) is on Sukhoi rather than NPO-Brahmos, the latter likely presented the model as a proof (or concept) of a generic air-launched BrahMos variant. In such a case, technical accuracy is not a strict requirement.
So you don't actually know what the maximum payload on a wing hardpoint for a Flanker-sized fighter is. I don't either, but I'm up front about it. I certainly don't outright exclude the possibility that a Flanker-sized fighter wing can carry a 2,500kg load. I know that even F-16s routinely carry the standard US 600-gallon drop tank on the nearest wing hardpoints that including fuel, pylon and dry weight comes to >1,900kg. I can only assume an F-15, Su-33, or J-15 wing could carry even more weight.
Both these statements here constitute your personal opinion. There is no way you can argue around this point, regardless of how emphatic you are about it. Even if we have only seen it so far on the H-6, this does not constitute an argument that only the H-6 is able to carry this missile.