J-10 Thread III (Closed to posting)

[shemade]

Re: J-20... The New Generation Fighter III

ws-10（we call taihang） has been installed in J-10B for years。as we don't have much experience in designing fighter engines in 2000， it's quite normal for us to buy some protypes from Russin。

 

[Quickie]

That is correct, the deliverys of Flankers from Russia is as follows

24 x Su-27 (18 Su-27SK and 6 Su-UBK) delivered in 1992
2 x Su-27UBK delivered also in 1992
24 x Su-27 (20 Su-27SK and 4 Su-27UBK) delivered in 1996-1997
28 x Su-27 UKB delivered in 2000-2002

total 78

and

38 x Su-30 MKK delivered in 2000-2001
38 x Su-30 MKK delivered in 2002-2003
24 x Su-30 MK2 delivered in 2004

total 100


Total Flankers delivered 178 Out of around 400 operational Flankers of all variants, including Chinese built J11, J11B and J11 BS, so that means

400 minus the 178 delivered flankers minus 96 using WS-10A leaves approx 130 flankers and around ~220 J10A giving total AL-31 engines of 480, we know 400 were delivered so that still leaves 80 x AL-31 unaccounted for which were most probably built by China, unless with the initial flanker delivery some engines were delivered that we don't know about but I highly doubt it

That did not include the J-11/J-11A which were built with Russian supplied kits including the engines. These J-11/J-11A (95 units according to Wikipedia) more than account for the 80 or so unaccounted units in the above calculation. Using the above figures, that leaves about 95X2 - 80 = 110 units of the engines as extras.

 

[asif iqbal]

Yes that is right, i forgot about the 95 J11 built under licence, infact its in Flanker section of AFM 2012 issue which i scanned in and posted earlier this year, it says China built 95 J11 out of the 200 they contracted with Russia

there maybe some Flankers using imported AL-31 engines, around 40, so thats 80 engines, plus the 220 x J10s which is around 300 engines which leaves behind ~100 x AL-31 engines as extras

but now the question is, why did China order so many engines, i guess for overhauls, replacements and repairs, plus if the J10B is going to use AL-31 it makes more sense

however, consider since late 2009 China has built over 200 x WS10A engines this is a production capacity of average ~70 engines per year, at that rate there should be more than enough WS10A engines to equip the new J10B Regiment, so why the rumour that J10B will use AL-31? i think there is still a possibility that J10B will infact use WS10A, that is until we see it!

 

[i.e.]

Yes that is right, i forgot about the 95 J11 built under licence, infact its in Flanker section of AFM 2012 issue which i scanned in and posted earlier this year, it says China built 95 J11 out of the 200 they contracted with Russia

there maybe some Flankers using imported AL-31 engines, around 40, so thats 80 engines, plus the 220 x J10s which is around 300 engines which leaves behind ~100 x AL-31 engines as extras

but now the question is, why did China order so many engines, i guess for overhauls, replacements and repairs, plus if the J10B is going to use AL-31 it makes more sense

however, consider since late 2009 China has built over 200 x WS10A engines this is a production capacity of average ~70 engines per year, at that rate there should be more than enough WS10A engines to equip the new J10B Regiment, so why the rumour that J10B will use AL-31? i think there is still a possibility that J10B will infact use WS10A, that is until we see it!

The ratio between airframes and with engine inventory is usually around 1 to 3. i.e. 1 engine set for airframe, 2 set kept in various stage of repair and reserve. so I am afriad your counts while accurate for airframe, is an underestimation for engines.

with out a pretty sophisticated over haul and rebuild facility in country PLAAF simply can not keep flying those flankers. PLAAF did send some AL-31 back to Russia but not possible with the bulk and quantity that we are talking about here. we are talking in term of hundreds rotating through MRO facilities per year for 10 years.

btw, if PAK buys J-10 with AL-31 that facility would likely be the place those engines gets over hualed too.

 

[i.e.]

So they can assemble if needbe, but do not in peace time because of the contract with Salut.

There is no doubt in mhy mind that may be not tomorrow but in 3 month if given goahead they can make new engines. Salut support would be nicer but not a necessary condition..

 

[asif iqbal]

The ratio between airframes and with engine inventory is usually around 1 to 3. i.e. 1 engine set for airframe, 2 set kept in various stage of repair and reserve. so I am afriad your counts while accurate for airframe, is an underestimation for engines.

with out a pretty sophisticated over haul and rebuild facility in country PLAAF simply can not keep flying those flankers. PLAAF did send some AL-31 back to Russia but not possible with the bulk and quantity that we are talking about here. we are talking in term of hundreds rotating through MRO facilities per year for 10 years.

btw, if PAK buys J-10 with AL-31 that facility would likely be the place those engines gets over hualed too.

i do not think that is the case at all, Pakistan has a Mirage Re-build Factory (MRF) at PAF Minhas Kamra, and have operated Mirage III and IV for over 4 decades, these Mirages have been core of the airforce, they have clocked on occasions in excess of 200 hours per year consistenly, and have only had new engines on no more than 3-4 occasions

when you have such a facility which China also does, you can take the engine out and provide a full overhaul and upgrade, you have also got in place very good maintenance facilitys which prolongs the life of the aircraft and engine, if u were to have 3 engines per aircraft that means you would need 1000s of engines

China has provided Pakistan with down to the last bolt very detailed maintenace and service manuals for RD-93, so much so that we now fit the engines to the airframe ourselves, our techicans were trained in China, so there is no doubt China has done similar with AL-31, infact i am sure China has mastered AL-31 and it is really a peice of cake for China, AL-31 for China is infact low qaulity but they have no other choice

under such a facility the ratio would be more like 3 aircraft per 2 spare engines, not 3 engines per 1 aircraft, but even then if engines are well maintained and serviced they can last a very long time without incident, turbofan engines are very robust peices of kit they will not go down very easily as long as you look after them

I think PAF would love to have J10B but only with WS10A, i also hope the next sqaudron of JF17 will have WS13 but i know that is not the case, WS10A and WS13 are 2 very good achivements for China and sends a clear message to the neighbours on our Eastern border

 

[Hendrik_2000]

Good J 10 movies with subtitle

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[siegecrossbow]

Might want to use the word "Good" with a bit more caution lol.

 

[Deino]

Why do You still think it is a "first batch" aircraft ??? It has a camouflage and some parts replaces ... IMO (just look at the image) it's '1031' the very first prototype fitted with some new parts incl. the radome ! Regrettably nothing more ....

Here should be a video I can't see

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Deino

Like I said !!! ... 1031 received some modifications ....

 

[drunkmunky]

1031 >> retractable fuel probe?