Israeli-Palestinian Conflict and other Related Conflicts in the Middle East (read the rules in the first post)

Petrolicious88 said:

Sure it could all be fake new. But I don't see the Saudi's putting out any statements refuting it either. Zero mention.

The two side are most likely doing some level of negotiation.

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There are many mentions, however, of the 1967 borders and Israel out of Gaza entirely as bare minimum loud and clear said in Saudi publications 10 times already or in the international organizations, just to start talking again with Israel, regarding the normalization.

That's a fact, everything else is probably fake news. I see no reason Saudis would publically retract this and back away from those conditions, that would be an international and domestic public perception disaster move.

And I don't think that the US "protection" is all that valuable to be honest, when the US can't even protect their master entity, Israel, against the Iranian strike, nor can they defeat the officially 'hungriest' country in the entire world right now, Yemen, to keep the Suez?

You also have Iran and Saudi having like best relations ever, as seen by the frequency of meetings, Saudis are now as vary of them as they are against the USIsrael instability. To be completely frank, the US's bullshit promises are worth jack shit right now. You are off by around 30 years.

Petrolicious88 said:

Good question for the Saudis.

I'm sure the Saudi military is very capable of defending themselves with their "wasta" mentality based on favoritism instead of meritocracy. Very high quality military that did a great job against Yemen even with all that US weaponry.

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So you're harping an argument you yourself don't know the answer to.

All the weaponry in the hands of US itself couldn't stop Yemen either.

What are Saudis defending against that they need security from US? Obviously, it's not Yemen because US failed there too.

_killuminati_ said:

So you're harping an argument you yourself don't know the answer to.

All the weaponry in the hands of US itself couldn't stop Yemen either.

What are Saudis defending against that they need security from US? Obviously, it's not Yemen because US failed there too.

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I have not argued why the Saudi would need such security guarantees. You and several others are asking this question. Let's not even compare the Saudi military to the US.

Petrolicious88 said:

I have not argued why the Saudi would need such security guarantees. You and several others are asking this question. Let's not even compare the Saudi military to the US.

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To recap, you made several claims and predictions based on this perspective:

Petrolicious88 said:

I think the Saudi's desperately want this deal as much as the Americans and Israelis. The world is transitioning away from Oil (and therefore Saudi's relevance). They prob will sacrifice some of their Palestinian demands in order to get a NATO style guarantees from US.

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The user then asked you why the Saudis would want such security guarantees that you pushed forward as the main benefit they want. Then, you deflected the question with this:

Petrolicious88 said:

Good question for the Saudis.

I'm sure the Saudi military is very capable of defending themselves with their "wasta" mentality based on favoritism instead of meritocracy. Very high quality military that did a great job against Yemen even with all that US weaponry.

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and the user rebutted your argument by stating that you don't know what threat is motivating the Saudis to desperately want the deal signed. All in all, the user is asking you to explain your reasoning, and your answer is severely insufficient. You can answer the question with an explanation of the threat that the Saudis need defense from or just admit that you don't know.

Serb said:

There are many mentions, however, of the 1967 borders and Israel out of Gaza entirely as bare minimum loud and clear said in Saudi publications 10 times already or in the international organizations, just to start talking again with Israel, regarding the normalization.

That's a fact, everything else is probably fake news. I see no reason Saudis would publically retract this and back away from those conditions, that would be an international and domestic public perception disaster move.

And I don't think that the US "protection" is all that valuable to be honest, when the US can't even protect their master entity, Israel, against the Iranian strike, nor can they defeat the officially 'hungriest' country in the entire world right now, Yemen, to keep the Suez?

You also have Iran and Saudi having like best relations ever, as seen by the frequency of meetings, Saudis are now as vary of them as they are against the USIsrael instability. To be completely frank, the US's bullshit promises are worth jack shit right now. You are off by around 30 years.

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The fact is, Saudi leadership go out of their way to release statements in a very low key manner, that you have to be in a forum like this to find these statements. Their king should just come out and assert their position in a public manner calling all these lies out and closing the subject once and for all. One has to wonder why he refuses to do that. Could it be because part of it is true?

Their chief of intelligence condemned Hamas for "obstructing the normalization process" as he put it. This tells me that the Saudis were trying to normalize relationships with Israel without asking for a Palestinian state recognition.

Their behaviour does not reflect their positions and for an Islamic country where the Kaaba and Haj destination reside, they ought to be ashamed of themselves for going along with this for over seven decades as the Palestinian people got wiped out and pushed out of their lands to the point where they are now concentrated in a land so small you throw a rock in mid air it falls on ten of people.

They had all this time to go to Iran and conduct some diplomacy on their own. They had all this time to establish a science base and an indigenous MIC. Instead, they bought all their weaponry from the US and destroyed Yemen and allowed the US to build one base after another right on Iran's border. They never needed China or Russia to guide them on that part, but despite joining BRICS and the SCO, they are still insisting on behaving in a duplicitous manner. Why? Is this really how one is supposed to behave when they are playing the long game?

Obviously, Saudi Arabia is a puppet and Iran had to babysit them this entire time to keep them in check, and now that Iran delivered a successful hit on Israel, they realize they can't protect Aramco if they keep doing deals with Israel. I'm now seeing rumours of under the table deals between Saudi Arabia and the US to get the Saudis some nukes. I wonder if that is true or not.

iBBz said:

The fact is, Saudi leadership goes out of their way to release statements in a very low key manner, that you have to be in a forum like this to find these statements. Their king should just come out and assert their position in a public manner calling all these lies out and closing the subject once and for all. One has to wonder why he refuses to do that. Could it be because part of it is true?

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They don't have any popular global media on their own, where to say it? And you need to know that the Western collective media is under North Korea-level control of their intelligence agencies, and they can pretty much fabric whatever story they want, everything to make it seem to their braindead sheeple domestically that everything is fine, the US is still the hegemon, calling the shots, everyone, and their mother is their vassal, rushing to fall into their arms, considers their opinion, etc. I'm seeing many official statements in favor of Palestine, but only on Twitter.

You have to consider something else, Houthis in Yemen basically have nothing left to lose, they are already the hungriest nation on Earth, so the only thing keeping them motivated and building political points is ideology and fight against imperialism, in hopes of one day, destroying the US imperialism that made them like that in the first place.

The same is true with Iran, they are already sanctioned to the death. Iraq and Syria are both war-torn and half-occupied, and Lebanon is in economic crisis, next in line to be targeted by Israelis, etc. They don't have much to lose. But Saudis have too much comfort to lose (sad, but that's basic human psychology). So, I don't think Saudis will actively fight, but they will be the first ones to jump the anti-US empire train at the right time when the opportunity presents itself to knock the US out entirely. Until then, I think that they will remain as neutral as they are now.

Petrolicious88 said:

Sure it could all be fake new. But I don't see the Saudi's putting out any statements refuting it either. Zero mention.

The two side are most likely doing some level of negotiation.

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The amount of conjecture and speculation is reaching the level where i cant quite tell if its trolling.

The real casualties

CasualObserver said:

Unwillingly, though. As soon as they leave, the idiots in Washington would let the hounds loose. Anyone who's been observing what's been going on around Turkey in the last 30 years can confirm this. Weirdly enough most of the folks @ CENTCOM have a hate boner when it comes to Turkey and would love nothing more than to have their way and bomb it into oblivion.

Provoking Turkey could've been one of their biggest f.ckups ever, if Turkey had competent people on the job.

I guess during their adventures in Iraq, they expected Turkey to act like a good little puppet and invade from the north but that never happened; so when they became high ranking officials the first thing they did was to ally with Turkey's enemies, be it terorrist groups or even America's regional adversaries.

They truly live in an isolated reality of their own... This is why they can't pull themselves out of Middle East, they meddled with too many countries' internal businesses and created such a blunder that it blew back on their face.

They didn't understand that the American influence in the region will one day inevitably fade away; but those countries, those people that they've meddled with are here to stay.

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Yes i think if the US leaves the middle east then all muslim countries in the region will unite and live together peacefully. No more sectarianism, divisions, separatism, rivalries etc.

Michael90 said:

Yes i think if the US leaves the middle east then all muslim countries in the region will unite and live together peacefully. No more sectarianism, divisions, separatism, rivalries etc.

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Another way to look at the situation is that: middle already have plenty of conflicts and the native actors are using usa as a way to push their action. Both side in Arab is using usa. Just as much as usa is exploiting the Arabs.

Usa involvement in middle east is like china's involvement in Mongolia and Manchuria. The great power supports the opposing faction, and switch side when one is stronger than the other. This is a way to maintain conflict.

If the middle east is allowed to unite, they would be another great power, will certainly have nuclear power too. And possible stronger than Iran. Arab is a bigger population than Persians.

This of course means Israel will cease to exist.