Israel vs. Iran ... A real nuke issue

The_Zergling

Junior Member
I'm not sure about the reliability of this news source, but it seems believable.

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Israel is negotiating with the United States for permission to fly over Iraq as part of a plan to attack Iran's nuclear facilities, The Daily Telegraph can reveal.

To conduct surgical air strikes against Iran's nuclear programme, Israeli war planes would need to fly across Iraq. But to do so the Israeli military authorities in Tel Aviv need permission from the Pentagon.

It's interesting, depressing, and totally predictable that Israel would consult the US and not the supposedly empowered Iraqi government regarding the use of IRAQI air space.

Back in Desert Storm when Israel was getting hit by Scuds they refrained from retaliating at the US's request because if they had the whole region arguably would have gone up in war. (Starting with "neutral" Jordan) If they do indeed bomb Iran now then what has been going on for some time will look like Disney World.

On a side note, the Scuds fired in the Gulf War are a good example of the resurrection hypothesis in political science, something that is eerily paralleled by the portrayal of Iran nowadays. Saddam Hussein was regarded as another Hitler by George H.W. Bush, casting him in the eyes of the American public as a major menace to world peace. Right or wrong, demonizing Saddam may have actually made him more dangerous and ensured his temporary political survival. If Hussein believed that the US was committed to marching to Baghdad and overthrowing, then he was unintentionally encouraged to take great risks to resurrect himself politically. A particular Scud fired at Israel illustrates his strategy.

First off, the missile was remarkable in several aspects. First off unlike the other missiles launched by Iraq at Israel, this wasn't aimed at a population center. This is remarkable because only by aiming at a population center could the Iraqis have hoped to gain the terror advantage the Scuds provided. Additionally, the missile carried no payload. While there were no explosives onboard later examinations stated that it was not a dud. Finally, the missile (unlike the other Scuds used in the Gulf War) had a concrete casing warhead, which was designed for chemical or biological weapons, though none were used.

The plausible inference was that the missile was a signal from Hussein. Basically he was warning the US and allies that if they marched to Baghdad to overthrow him he was prepared to up the antes by using WMD against Israel. Since it was widely speculated that the Israelis would retaliate with nukes... this obviously had uncomfortable implications. A day later H.W. Bush called for a ceasefire and negotiated a settlement of the war on terms relatively favorable to the Iraqis considering they had been utterly defeated on the battlefield.

In a sense, the US demonizing Hussein may have inadvertently helped him, at least domestically. Given his past record of dangerous behavior, he had the credibility in his threat to engage in unconventional warfare. Having been left no way out of the war (at least not one ensuring political or even physical survival, given that the agreement posed by the US for him to go into exile was unlikely to go through given that he was portrayed as a demon), he dangerously but effectively raised the stakes by sending the signal that he was prepared to escalate and possibly provoke nuclear war.

Pushing leaders to the point where they need to resurrect themselves is a risky strategy. While demonizing an adversary helps mobilize political support for the use of force, it also motivates the foe to try harder to win. It also makes negotiations unlikely.

We see these things acted out over and over again...
 

BLUEJACKET

Banned Idiot
U.S. developing contingency plan to bomb Iran: report
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Report: 3 Gulf states agree to IAF overflights en route to Iran
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Stand-off in Gulf with Iran 'a bit like Cold War'
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Olmert: Prepare for war with Syria
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Missile Defense Redux-Saving Us From the Bad Guys Again ZNet
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Missile Fantasies
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Shahid

New Member
I'm not sure about the reliability of this news source, but it seems believable.

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It's interesting, depressing, and totally predictable that Israel would consult the US and not the supposedly empowered Iraqi government regarding the use of IRAQI air space.

Back in Desert Storm when Israel was getting hit by Scuds they refrained from retaliating at the US's request because if they had the whole region arguably would have gone up in war. (Starting with "neutral" Jordan) If they do indeed bomb Iran now then what has been going on for some time will look like Disney World.

There is no way a targeted air strike against Iran could put an end to it's nuclear research programm, at best it would be suspended for a few years. The scientific and technical know-how and the industrial capacity will remain the same.
A full scale invasion is obviously out of question.
The most immediate and obvious consequences of a large scale military operation (meant to destroy Iran's military and industrial capacities) conducted by the US and/or Israel in order to force the Irani government to abandon the nuclear program would be:

-Immediate retaliation against Israeli/US interests in the region by affiliated islamist groups : Hamas and Islamic djihad in Gaza strip, Hezbollah in Lebanon, Hazara shiite minority in Afghanistan, al-Mahdi Army and other shiite militias in Iraq : mortar and rocket attacks, suicide and car bombing, urban uprising... Probably thousands of casualties.

-Iran's military retaliations : Rockets and missiles fired at US base in the Gulf and probably Israel agglomerations. Conventional (less probable) or kamikaze attacks against US navy ships (conducted by waves of explosives filled speed boats of the Pasdaran's navy).

- Economic retaliation : Iran will most probably plant mines in the Hormuz detroit, thus crippling the crude oil shipping in the Persian Gulf. This would be a huge blow to US economy and to any industrialised country. Worldwide diplomatic pressure on the US to stop the war.

- Diplomatic issue : Irani government hardliners will gain the support of the population, and probably decrete a state of emergency to neutralize all political opposition. Any normalisation of political ties with Iran would be impossible for almost fifteen years. The eventuality of a government change is nihil.

In my opinion, the probability of such a military operation to be launched by the US and/or Israel is close to zero, specially if you keep in mind the fact that Iran is technically incapable of developing a nuclear warhead befor at least seven years. Acquiring one from North Korea or Pakistan is a more plausible alternative if this is really the goal.
Anyway, the world is against the eventuality of a new war in the Middle East, and the one to strike first would collect international desapprobation.
 

BLUEJACKET

Banned Idiot
Since when the US has been rational in that part of the world? With the Admiral in charge of the CENTCOM, you can draw a different conclusion from the one in prev. post!
Pentagon Whistle-Blower on the Coming War With Iran
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UPDATE-

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An interesting perspective from Pakistan-
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See post #294 for more!
 
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