is this a chinese rifle?

actually the american had alot of trouble with the Vietcong and their AK47
during the Vietnam war. Reports indicated that Vietcong would hide in swamps while the american crossed with their M16A1s above their heads, the Vietcong would then fire out of the water killing multiple marines the M16 was a rifle which couldnt be fire underwater in case of a jamming so maybe the American got scared of another semi underwater battle and designed one or something....

AWB2 said:

actually the american had alot of trouble with the Vietcong and their AK47
during the Vietnam war. Reports indicated that Vietcong would hide in swamps while the american crossed with their M16A1s above their heads, the Vietcong would then fire out of the water killing multiple marines the M16 was a rifle which couldnt be fire underwater in case of a jamming so maybe the American got scared of another semi underwater battle and designed one or something....

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No gun operates underwater, except for specially designed ones. You need air to ignite the gunpowder in the cartridges, or at least a oxidizer.

I wasnt cause of jamming it was cause the M-16 didnt have adequate draining holes for the water to drain and clear out the combustion compartment for the cartridge. Cartridge to ignite needs the room, but water is still trapped in it, while the AK-47 water drained out much quicker so soon as its out of the water it can be fired with couple of shakes.

Finn McCool said:

Yes it's the Russian (Soviet actually) APS underwater rifle. It's not really designed for use on land.

Seems like quite a waste of money to me. How many underwater gun battles have there been in history. The Soviets and the Americans both already had underwater pistols before this gun entered service, which makes it all the more futile.

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The forces that are gonna use this are eqivalent to frogman. If you read about German special forces actions during WW2. There is an example of two SF men swimming with a modified torpedo. Their target was a US manned bridge. They succeeded in mission by destruction of bridge. They lost one guy to guards but if they had this type of gun they could atleast have some defensive armament. Missions of this type this weapon is designed for.

On this Russian weapon I am not sure if this their latest variant but I read the newer gun is good on land too. Granted the role for these weapons is limited but you cannot design a general infantry weapon to work in all conditions.

Their skin are white, doesn't look Chinese to me!

I speculated they were asian divers in the 2nd pic (possibly Chinese) because:

1. unknown O2 rebreather design. It looks western (draeger's) but it is not. Unlike the one in the pic, the old soviet O2 rebreather is soft-pack or has no frame cover.

2. The fins are jet-fins or copy of them. Soviet divers use different design. Jet fins are quite popular in commercial diving community, in asia as well.

3. The hands in the 2nd pic do not look big as compared with the pistal grip.

Of course, it is just a wild speculation based on circumstantial evidence.

Pointblank said:

No gun operates underwater, except for specially designed ones. You need air to ignite the gunpowder in the cartridges, or at least a oxidizer.

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Hi, I'm not expert on gun or how the gunpowder is ignited. But something I don't understand; The gunpowder is packed closely inside the bullet, when it's fired, the gunpowder explode before the projectile and the cartridge separate. This means the gunpowder needs no outside air to ignite. I heard somewhere (can't remember the source) that the gunpowder contains oxygen. A normal gun can't fire in water because its mechanism doesn't support so (not because the gunpowder needs air). But when you get it out from water, as long as the bullet is waterproof, you can fire it. Just my two cents. Correct me if I'm wrong.

if the gunpowder contains its own oxygen (such as nitrogen oxide), then, assuming it will reach ignition temperature while soaked in water, then yes, it will fire. same principle as rocket fuel, which contains its own oxygen to fire in low air pressure.

Gunpowder contains an oxidizer component like potassium nitrate (KNO3) which has oxygen atoms chemically bounded. So gunpowder can be ignited even in vacuum space.

Pointblank said:

No gun operates underwater, except for specially designed ones. You need air to ignite the gunpowder in the cartridges, or at least a oxidizer.

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gunpowder has its own oxidizer. Glocks fire underwater, and you can even order a special part that increases its reliability underwater.

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