Iranian Military Trend

Anyone been following the military development of Iran? It seems in recent years they have made some effort on indigenous weapon systems.


Look at this page, Iran have the ability to produce most of those weaponry on their own.

They are able to produce missiles, tanks, ships etc...

Granted, all of them are not state of the art standard, most of them are copies from China and US with 1980-1990's technology. But what is interesting is that they are actually trying to make an effort in producing them at all, which would make them the first nation in the Middle East doing this.

They remind me of China of early 1990s when they were trying to develop their industry.

So what is everyone's take on this? Why are they doing this, would it also because of the sanctions? And how far would you see them going?

Please don't turn this into a Iran vs Israel vs US discussion, let's just pretend Iran is at good terms with everyone, so where do you see this is going?

Interesting.
The Scud missiles have a terrific reputation among ignorant Western journalists but I would disregard them.
I wonder why liquid fuel was chosen for the Qiam1.
I see nothing about the production of gas turbines for the aircraft.
I would imagine that the Iranian regime will survive despite all talk about an Israeli and/or US attack and that in time it will share the position of most important Middle Eastern country with Egypt. Industrial cooperation between these countries might serve them both.

their indigenous effort is commendable, just like China, born out of necessity

but it is too much boast, and little substance, across the field
Iran is trying to portray itself undergoing a rapid military modernization like China, as part of their usual rhetoric and bluffing game

how far can they go? i personally haven't seen any breakthrough point other than what you described as copies of US/Chinese/Russian hardware of 80's-90's era, or the scientific base/research establishment for such improvement to happen

i doubt they have full scale wind tunnel research facility for example, or modern shipyards

cooperation with other Middle Eastern country? Impossible, they hate and fear Iran more than Israel

paintgun said:

their indigenous effort is commendable, just like China, born out of necessity

but it is too much boast, and little substance, across the field
Iran is trying to portray itself undergoing a rapid military modernization like China, as part of their usual rhetoric and bluffing game

how far can they go? i personally haven't seen any breakthrough point other than what you described as copies of US/Chinese/Russian hardware of 80's-90's era, or the scientific base/research establishment for such improvement to happen

i doubt they have full scale wind tunnel research facility for example, or modern shipyards

cooperation with other Middle Eastern country? Impossible, they hate and fear Iran more than Israel

Click to expand...

You scrap the Chinese bit and that's what a lot of people are saying about China today. As for the Iranians they could have easily bought weapons from China or Russia but have chosen to go at it alone. I think this relates back to the Iran-Iraq War (1980-1988) when Iran was abandoned by the rest of the world when Iraq was using chemical weapons on them. So far they have been successful in reverse engineering some of the 1960's and 70's technology from America and some 1990's technology from China. Its interesting and commendable that they can still keep their F-14 fleet flying despite being cut off from US technical support for the past 33 years.

This might be interesting the Iranians are now building their own version of a stealth plane.

paintgun said:

their indigenous effort is commendable, just like China, born out of necessity

but it is too much boast, and little substance, across the field
Iran is trying to portray itself undergoing a rapid military modernization like China, as part of their usual rhetoric and bluffing game

how far can they go? i personally haven't seen any breakthrough point other than what you described as copies of US/Chinese/Russian hardware of 80's-90's era, or the scientific base/research establishment for such improvement to happen

i doubt they have full scale wind tunnel research facility for example, or modern shipyards

cooperation with other Middle Eastern country? Impossible, they hate and fear Iran more than Israel

Click to expand...

Yeah it is true, what they are producing now are are very old by today's standard. But even producing 80-90 era hardware still require a minimum industry base, there are just so many parts in a modern jet or missile that you need a wide range of companies to work on it, any nation show the ability to produce them at all is something.

Now the other thing you said I agree, they won't have the same advantage as China does in the 90-2000s, that is a open international market, and millions of student studying at with the West, an exploding civilian manufacturing economy which is very helpful to the military. So that means Iran can probably produce older style jets, but they may never catch up with the world leader.

But sometimes even that is enough, because today US, China and Russia are still using 4th hardware based in the 80-90s technology, so if Iran can produce enough quantity that will make a difference.

Franklin said:

You scrap the Chinese bit and that's what a lot of people are saying about China today. As for the Iranians they could have easily bought weapons from China or Russia but have chosen to go at it alone. I think this relates back to the Iran-Iraq War (1980-1988) when Iran was abandoned by the rest of the world when Iraq was using chemical weapons on them. So far they have been successful in reverse engineering some of the 1960's and 70's technology from America and some 1990's technology from China. Its interesting and commendable that they can still keep their F-14 fleet flying despite being cut off from US technical support for the past 33 years.

This might be interesting the Iranians are now building their own version of a stealth plane.

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Click to expand...

I don't think Iran can buy weapons freely from Russia and China anymore, US pressure still effect China's dealing with Iran. And I remember Russia had to cancel several military contracts with Iran, for example the S-300 system. So effectively, they are even more sanctioned than China on purchasing weapons.

HESA Shafaq is not a stealth jet, it does not even have internal weapon bay, this aircraft looks a lot like F-18 from the front half.

Iran cannot be compared to China in the 80's. Yes, they are trying to be self sustain. But it needs to start at bottom.

China started by giving economy priorities over military. Infrastruture are build up. Technology are imported. Large scale upgrade of education and nurture of large pool of future phD are carry out. The improvement of civilian ship building , Automobile and aeronautic indeed helps future in improvising the military too.

Until now , I doubt they still able to fully absorbed the 70's technology of US. Like US AIM-7 missile and APG-71 radar. But one thing I am very interested in the modify F-5 serving in IrAF. The HESA Saeqeh but from the info, they have very limited number of prototype build. I believe, they indeed have a new airframe but the engines are probably utilise from refurbished J-85 engines given the limted number of HESA Saeqeh spotted. I doubt they have the mean to manufacture J-85 engines by themselves.

Franklin said:

You scrap the Chinese bit and that's what a lot of people are saying about China today. As for the Iranians they could have easily bought weapons from China or Russia but have chosen to go at it alone. I think this relates back to the Iran-Iraq War (1980-1988) when Iran was abandoned by the rest of the world when Iraq was using chemical weapons on them. So far they have been successful in reverse engineering some of the 1960's and 70's technology from America and some 1990's technology from China. Its interesting and commendable that they can still keep their F-14 fleet flying despite being cut off from US technical support for the past 33 years.

This might be interesting the Iranians are now building their own version of a stealth plane.

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Click to expand...

calling the Shafaq a stealth plane is quite a stretch of imagination isn't it?

Lion has a point, Iran does not have the bottom or the base as strong as China, either scientifically or economically, see the Rial drop in value lately?

They keep their F-14 flying by cannibalizing older parts and airframe, nothing surprising there

Their inability to develop say.. an F-14 clone or comparable aircraft is otherwise telling, and they are stuck with making minor modifications on the F-5, they can't even create new F-5 airframes

same with their 'brand new' helicopters, ships, all are remnants of Shah era's weapon from the US

jackliu said:

I don't think Iran can buy weapons freely from Russia and China anymore, US pressure still effect China's dealing with Iran. And I remember Russia had to cancel several military contracts with Iran, for example the S-300 system. So effectively, they are even more sanctioned than China on purchasing weapons.

HESA Shafaq is not a stealth jet, it does not even have internal weapon bay, this aircraft looks a lot like F-18 from the front half.

Click to expand...

not even close to the F-18

Iran has traded away many things for the position she get herself into today, which is the nuke program

paintgun said:

calling the Shafaq a stealth plane is quite a stretch of imagination isn't it?

Lion has a point, Iran does not have the bottom or the base as strong as China, either scientifically or economically, see the Rial drop in value lately?

They keep their F-14 flying by cannibalizing older parts and airframe, nothing surprising there

Their inability to develop say.. an F-14 clone or comparable aircraft is otherwise telling, and they are stuck with making minor modifications on the F-5, they can't even create new F-5 airframes

same with their 'brand new' helicopters, ships, all are remnants of Shah era's weapon from the US

Click to expand...

The reason why the Iranian Rail is dropping is because on the one hand you have the US and EU imposing sanctions on Iran while on the other hand you have countries like China that is squeezing Iran by forcing them to sell their oil and gas below market prices.

I believe that the HESA Saeqeh's are new airframes but Lion makes a good point about the engines. Some of their new ships and helicopters are domestically build. And the point about Iran not having the scientific and economic bases that China has is well taken.

As for the HESA Shafaq so far there are no flying prototypes yet, and the size of that plane looks more like a trainer than a fighter, but i guess we will have to wait and see.

If Iran can make upgraded clones of their F-14's like China has done with the J-11B and the J-16 that would be something. The Americans and the Israeli's will feel the ridge of their seats digging into their buttocks on that one.