Iran TOR M1A SAMs VS US missiles

IDonT

Senior Member
VIP Professional
Re: Iran Strategies

I was educating myself by listening Ron Paul stating that the US is surrounding Iran right now preparing for war and that laws are being implement, laws similar to those that implemented on Iraq in 1998 for regime change.

Question 1: Who controls the waters around Iran right now considering the two air-craft carriers in the area? The shore line of Iran is over 1600km long, Iraq only has 10-20km long shore long.

Question 2: If the US is going to attack Iran, is the best option for Iran a preemptive attack while the US sets up its military to declare war. I mean look at Iraq if Iraq attacked while the US was preparing they would have had a better chance. I mean one surprise attack might prevent a war.

Link removed because of it's political nature.

1.) US controls the Persian Gulf. The shoreline of Iran might be 1600 km long, but locations with strategic and military value are not that many. Two carrier battle groups with airforce back up from Qatar is more than enough.

2.) That depends. For one thing Iran must be really sure that an attack is immenent or you get a situation that is the reverse of what your looking for. Secondly, you better make sure that you have the capability to successfuly carry out your preemptive attack. Because failure, chances are you will fail, will incur massive and irreplacable military losses.
 

Finn McCool

Captain
Registered Member
:coffee: do you guys know that last summer the 5th biggest air power vs the most trained guerill forces ...man im talking about proxy between american weapon vs iran training ..the future of war is network centrick and also how u use the best equipment in battlefield condition+ a very flexible independent cain of comand ..its true that 100 us aircraft vs few tor might be unbalance but if the iran deploy an arsenal of passive anti-radiation missile wth home on jam plus high frag 400m radius warhad with built in passive radar at mach 2.5 to sead team....it will be a diffrent story...then plus optically track 30 km range system hidden in the bunkers (in the hills in iran system) waiting to ambush hi prize american target( serbia did it) ....it may ground a few aircraft....dunno just giving another hipothesis

Of course Iran's variety of advanced SAMs will cause casualties to the US. However, it is a mistake to think that it will slow the Americans down much. In any attack on Iran scenario, it is highly likely that the USAF will hit the Iranians with all the electronic assets that it can bring to bear. Secondly SAM sites will be targeted with Tomahawks, then SEAD missions. To survive this the Iranians will probably turn off their radar. But if this happens, the Americans have won. Of course, the Iranians can use the "Serbian technique" and turn their radars on and off which will get them some kills but that will not result in the kind of casualties that would stop the USAF/N.
 

mpaduan79

New Member
Of course Iran's variety of advanced SAMs will cause casualties to the US. However, it is a mistake to think that it will slow the Americans down much. In any attack on Iran scenario, it is highly likely that the USAF will hit the Iranians with all the electronic assets that it can bring to bear. Secondly SAM sites will be targeted with Tomahawks, then SEAD missions. To survive this the Iranians will probably turn off their radar. But if this happens, the Americans have won. Of course, the Iranians can use the "Serbian technique" and turn their radars on and off which will get them some kills but that will not result in the kind of casualties that would stop the USAF/N.

(On March 21st, 1968, less than a year after the shining victory of the Six Day War, the IDF raided the Fatah high command a band of crude guerilla fighters in the village of Karameh in Jordan.



They were all present, all the stars of the victory: The paratroopers under Danny Mat, the 7th Brigade commander Shmuel Gonen (Gorodish), and the paratrooper commando unit under Matan Vilnai. The operation was run by Central Command Chief Major-General Uzi Narkis, who captured Jerusalem.



The defense minister at the time was reservist Lieutenant General Moshe Dayan and not Amir Peretz.



Remember how it ended? The IDF retreated quickly (a nice expression for escaping by the skin of their teeth), battered and bruised with 28 dead and three missing (namely, corpses left behind in the battlefield). The forces also left behind four tanks, which were put on display in the streets of Amman. An Israeli aircraft was hit and crashed inside Israeli territory.)

ur all true in all the way but.... its only scenario ,first how does the american search for those active radar site. awacs, prowler or hawkeye aircraft....plus airborne jammer , so lets iran turn flash out a few tin can(its an old soviet radar ) radar signature plus 100 decoy around its mountain in the north ( common sense moutains or hills perfect for bunker) so these big slow moving radar tracker track the signal+ s or c band noise jammer ,scrambling 100 aircraft from the bases in qatar or the aircraft carrier . the passive radar with cold water based battries (from sub tech) in ishafans small small gulfll near to water position with few waves (sea water kown to effect radar tracking perfomence ) trace the signal from the aew jammer radar . giving the coordinat to the pasive anti radar+jammer missile batteries mouted in trucks..
the fires 3 missile based on TOO module (target of oportunity) within 30 km range of target open its own home jam radar ,the the aew aircraft witl be damage and must land for repair...by that time some of the 100 aircrat sead team will near 45 km from tehran ,without the aew to coordinate them, they are force to seach the radar by rwr, but the iran deploy their iff jammer ( dated 1950ies used by hizbollah to disturb IAF) the 100 aircraft counter it ther own airborne jammer, passive radar detects , a volley of these passive anti jamer + radiation radar break the 100 formation then try to dodge those missile,a few tor-mi on its real radar ,ambush these aircrat ( coz the 100 aircraft have already shut down their ecm or eccm capabilities (remember aircraft can only avoid 1 type of tracking method at 1 time) so the fortunate aircraft try to zigzag with nap on earth in the hills to the south without sar radar try to fly to their base back but in their pprojected path( using cell phone or walkie talkie by spooter@villagers thacking by sound or flash to the aa battery waiting them are manpads plus 27-35 mm anti aircraft gun) . In the CNN that after 7 am in the morning day breaking news ,iran manage to shot down 1 f/a-18 hornet using their 14.5 mm quad canon aa gun on a truck by fighters from iraq insurgents group link to iran near the iraqi borders. but by quick response csar team they manage to save the pilot and the navigator but Western media reported no enemy killed in these operations, 28 civilians killed, and 50 civilians wounded.a Marine officer says to media in a press conf. ..its only a hipothesis coz like i said the best weapon is how u know the best use of ur weapon effecively in battle field condition(thats include media)

pre emptive attack its not the best but deterrent is the best defence

pre emptive attack its not the best but deterrent is the best defence
iran revolution guards in small RIB inflatable boats teams will try to shoot us aircraft carrier warship using RPG-7VM in volleys using shot and scoot tactic ..... the USN wil try to shot them back using m60 7.62 mm machine guns on their heli or warship , ircg fight back using Dhsk or RPK mg or MANPADS SA-7 ..... try that for a laugh.......wah hahhahhahahahha its true actually:roll: :roll: :roll:
 
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Pointblank

Senior Member
iran revolution guards in small RIB inflatable boats teams will try to shoot us aircraft carrier warship using RPG-7VM in volleys using shot and scoot tactic ..... the USN wil try to shot them back using m60 7.62 mm machine guns on their heli or warship , ircg fight back using Dhsk or RPK mg or MANPADS SA-7 ..... try that for a laugh.......wah hahhahhahahahha its true actually:roll: :roll: :roll:

Do you even think that a RIB will even get that close to a US carrier... NOT LIKELY! And will an RPG even penetrate the hull of a carrier, also not likely. They would have been intercepted by the escorts, and promptly sunk by long range cannon fire and helicopters armed with Penguin missiles after being warned...
 

mpaduan79

New Member
Do you even think that a RIB will even get that close to a US carrier... NOT LIKELY! And will an RPG even penetrate the hull of a carrier, also not likely. They would have been intercepted by the escorts, and promptly sunk by long range cannon fire and helicopters armed with Penguin missiles after being warned...
:coffee:
warned by who, radar? radar cannot spot a small target with near "stealth" capabilities on open water, only infra red can spot them in certain direction(after they blast the rpg in voleys) but at that time they have scoot away at 30 knot uder comoufage ir net (they use in bad boys 2 early part of the movie ) pissing american nav. then they try to target them with long range canon 152 mm but we are talking about a small fast agile moving target in littoral sea homewaters with some wave so, cannot see so cannot predict the coordinat using what gps eh? the scarmble sh-60 sikorski heli with penguin misille (actually pengguin need 20 m rcs to spot the target or the most effective and logical unit ah-1n sea cobra with 20 mm gatling canon (us marines have afew) but with T0W missle but those ircg suicide rib fires manpads beyond tow range (5.5 km vs max 4 km) some more it is Tube-launched, Optically tracked, Wire-guided missile so the heli operator must see and wait untill it hit target but manpad is fire n forget the cobra evasive manuver....but too late it has been spoted by a rib bot with 20mm aa(iraqi trained from taji, so far the have down few apache ah-64 with longbow radar) canon ....so then usn send some csar but the ircgs safe back to their house watching it live from cnn - the objective they have harras the entire carrier battle group to protect oil&logistic shipping lane ,to put all their anti-rib assets to search for those irgc rib boats team the whole day, remain in qatar base becos its safer there... ,then using long range cannon+tomahawk they manage to bomb kharaq island with few "collecteral" damage. cnn repot . also a hepothesis also ....right
 

mpaduan79

New Member
hello! thats y hms sheffield wast hit by exocet " sea skimming" missile+ uss stark near kharaq island during iran-iraq war

:coffee:
warned by who, radar? radar cannot spot a small target with near "stealth" capabilities on open water, only infra red can spot them in certain direction(after they blast the rpg in voleys) but at that time they have scoot away at 30 knot uder comoufage ir net (they use in bad boys 2 early part of the movie ) pissing american nav. then they try to target them with long range canon 152 mm but we are talking about a small fast agile moving target in littoral sea homewaters with some wave so, cannot see so cannot predict the coordinat using what gps eh? the scarmble sh-60 sikorski heli with penguin misille (actually pengguin need 20 m rcs to spot the target or the most effective and logical unit ah-1n sea cobra with 20 mm gatling canon (us marines have afew) but with T0W missle but those ircg suicide rib fires manpads beyond tow range (5.5 km vs max 4 km) some more it is Tube-launched, Optically tracked, Wire-guided missile so the heli operator must see and wait untill it hit target but manpad is fire n forget the cobra evasive manuver....but too late it has been spoted by a rib bot with 20mm aa(iraqi trained from taji, so far the have down few apache ah-64 with longbow radar) canon ....so then usn send some csar but the ircgs safe back to their house watching it live from cnn - the objective they have harras the entire carrier battle group to protect oil&logistic shipping lane ,to put all their anti-rib assets to search for those irgc rib boats team the whole day, remain in qatar base becos its safer there... ,then using long range cannon+tomahawk they manage to bomb kharaq island with few "collecteral" damage. cnn repot . also a hepothesis also ....right

might use uss Seawolf class subs, normallly they escort carrier battle group
the blast those ircg rib boat using mark 48 adcap to blast them out of the water using active and/or passive homing ....but sonar cannot refelect rubber
some more in littoral water ...so the have they to use periscope but those ircg guy put playboy mag in front of the scope forcing the sub to submerge to catch and destroy them using m60 mg those ircg ribs but the using limplet mines ,ircg frogman detonate the outer hull of the subs and put it out of action so the subs dive to safety
 
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Pointblank

Senior Member
:coffee:
warned by who, radar? radar cannot spot a small target with near "stealth" capabilities on open water, only infra red can spot them in certain direction(after they blast the rpg in voleys) but at that time they have scoot away at 30 knot uder comoufage ir net (they use in bad boys 2 early part of the movie ) pissing american nav. then they try to target them with long range canon 152 mm but we are talking about a small fast agile moving target in littoral sea homewaters with some wave so, cannot see so cannot predict the coordinat using what gps eh? the scarmble sh-60 sikorski heli with penguin misille (actually pengguin need 20 m rcs to spot the target or the most effective and logical unit ah-1n sea cobra with 20 mm gatling canon (us marines have afew) but with T0W missle but those ircg suicide rib fires manpads beyond tow range (5.5 km vs max 4 km) some more it is Tube-launched, Optically tracked, Wire-guided missile so the heli operator must see and wait untill it hit target but manpad is fire n forget the cobra evasive manuver....but too late it has been spoted by a rib bot with 20mm aa(iraqi trained from taji, so far the have down few apache ah-64 with longbow radar) canon ....so then usn send some csar but the ircgs safe back to their house watching it live from cnn - the objective they have harras the entire carrier battle group to protect oil&logistic shipping lane ,to put all their anti-rib assets to search for those irgc rib boats team the whole day, remain in qatar base becos its safer there... ,then using long range cannon+tomahawk they manage to bomb kharaq island with few "collecteral" damage. cnn repot . also a hepothesis also ....right

A RIB is detectable on radar. I've been on a frigate on exercise as a guest before. Besides an excellent ship based radar set, we had good watch from lookouts, and assistance from the Sea King helicopter providing overwatch with it's onboard surface search radar and FLIR. The frigate detected the target, and we engaged the RIB with the 57mm gun. The gun burst shrapnel above the RIB and it promptly sank to the bottom of the Georgia Strait riddled with holes. I doubt anyone can survive proximity fused 57mm rounds bursting over their heads. Besides the main gun, we had Browning M2 .50 machine guns for closer in defence, and the Phalanx Block 1B which is capable of engaging close in targets. Most USN warships are equipped with at least main gun and all have multiple Mk 38 25mm chain guns and Browning M2 machine guns for point defence.

hello! thats y hms sheffield wast hit by exocet " sea skimming" missile+ uss stark near kharaq island during iran-iraq war

HMS Sheffield was sunk because it lost it's ability to fight the fire; it was the result of the missile rupturing the only water main (In a bid to get as many Sea Dart SAM equipped ships to sea as possible, Type 42's had various cost cutting appiled to design, including a single water main, 40 feet cut off the length), thus making the fire from unburnt rocket fuel from the Exocet, problematic to put out. Furthermore, her radar was offline, not unusual since she was one of a number of radar pickets, however, the UUA-1 ESM system would warn of attacks.

But, at the time of illumination of the Exocet's own radar seeker, Sheffield was doing a transmission on her satellite comms system, which compromised the ESM's ability. Again, poor situational awareness and a poor design doomed her.

USS Stark was hit due to poor understanding of the ROE, poor commanding, and poor situational awareness. After Stark was hit, USN ROE and situational awareness sharpened. Nobody got close to USN ships as USN ships tightened up security and alertness as CO's weren't going to let their ships get hit due to a "mis-interpretation" of the ROE. Warning shots were constantly fired against anything that's intentions were unknown and got within 1 mile of the ship. In the end the main failure of the CO of the Stark was that he forgot to protect his ship. A piece of paper with ROEs on it will not stop a missile.
 
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mpaduan79

New Member
A RIB is detectable on radar. I've been on a frigate on exercise as a guest before. Besides an excellent ship based radar set, we had good watch from lookouts, and assistance from the Sea King helicopter providing overwatch with it's onboard surface search radar and FLIR. The frigate detected the target, and we engaged the RIB with the 57mm gun. The gun burst shrapnel above the RIB and it promptly sank to the bottom of the Georgia Strait riddled with holes. I doubt anyone can survive proximity fused 57mm rounds bursting over their heads. Besides the main gun, we had Browning M2 .50 machine guns for closer in defence, and the Phalanx Block 1B which is capable of engaging close in targets. Most USN warships are equipped with at least main gun and all have multiple Mk 38 25mm chain guns and Browning M2 machine guns for point defence.



HMS Sheffield was sunk because it lost it's ability to fight the fire; it was the result of the missile rupturing the only water main (In a bid to get as many Sea Dart SAM equipped ships to sea as possible, Type 42's had various cost cutting appiled to design, including a single water main, 40 feet cut off the length), thus making the fire from unburnt rocket fuel from the Exocet, problematic to put out. Furthermore, her radar was offline, not unusual since she was one of a number of radar pickets, however, the UUA-1 ESM system would warn of attacks.

But, at the time of illumination of the Exocet's own radar seeker, Sheffield was doing a transmission on her satellite comms system, which compromised the ESM's ability. Again, poor situational awareness and a poor design doomed her.

USS Stark was hit due to poor understanding of the ROE, poor commanding, and poor situational awareness. After Stark was hit, USN ROE and situational awareness sharpened. Nobody got close to USN ships as USN ships tightened up security and alertness as CO's weren't going to let their ships get hit due to a "mis-interpretation" of the ROE. Warning shots were constantly fired against anything that's intentions were unknown and got within 1 mile of the ship. In the end the main failure of the CO of the Stark was that he forgot to protect his ship. A piece of paper with ROEs on it will not stop a missile.

I am seeing that from the rest of your multiple posts that you are most likely a troll, so I will sit back until a mod gets his hands on you and slaps you a warning. Besides, we are off topic; so, BACK TO YOUR REGULARLY SCHEDULED TOPIC! :nono:
:coffee:
ur true and like i said the best way to use the weapon the know how to use in battlefield condition, if the enemy can predict ur sop how ur react , in a terrain of their choice.... just like ins hanit -2 Barak launchers, 20mm Phalanx CIWS Mk.15, 2 x Mk 32 torpedo launchers (6 tubes) Browning M2 machine

According to the the Israeli Navy, the ship's sophisticated automatic missile defense system was not deployed, even though the early warning system is usually deployed during peace-time wargames. It was also reported that even a nearby ship had deployed its defense system, thus creating great speculations. [4]. Israel said the defense system was not deployed because of Israeli aircraft in the area. There was no known intelligence pointing to the fact that such a sophisticated missile was deployed in Lebanon by Hezbollah.
regardless of whether a C-802 or C-701 they are not only fire-and-forget weapons, but require nothing more than a bearing and a rough distance to be launched and hit, both of which could have possibly been acquired using nothing more complicated than binoculars. The issue remains unresolved at present, because the Hanit's precise location at the time of the attack is unknown. The flight profiles of the two missiles employed in the attack (the other hit a Cambodian[verification needed] cargo ship) do indeed suggest that they were launched without precise targeting information, homing in with their onboard electronics: had they been provided with onshore guidance rather than autonomously acquiring their targets, it is fairly unlikely that the nis-targetting of the civilian vessel would have occurred.

Iranian military advisors from the Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps (IRGC) had assisted with the firing (more precisely: with deploying and readying the missile launcher; the actual firing was within Hezbollah's capability).[6]

they use binoculars for bearing and a rough distance to be launched and hit Sa'ar 5 ships that are considered the Israeli fleet's most advanced surface
 
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Gollevainen

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To everyone, leave the moderation for mods please.

And mpaduan79, there's a rules about doupleposting (multiple post in a row without anyone else anwsering in the middle) and of other code of conducts. If you forget something there's the edit putton for that purpose.

Also the discussion is bit offtopic so off you go and linger back to Iranian SAMs.

Gollevainen
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