Iran military parade

darth sidious

Banned Idiot
adeptitus said:
Iran has a $182 billion economy and annual military budget of $4.x billion, which is roughly equal (both economy and military expenditure) to Argentina. I don't think they qualify as 3rd world countries.

IMO if a country can afford to spend 4+ billion/year on their military, I think they can afford to develop and build tanks.

The Iraq's military was only large on paper. Saddam rode that country right into the ground. When Saddam Hussein first took power in 1979, Iraq had $36 billion cash reserves and no long-term foreign debt. Thats' $36 billion USD in 1979 money. Saddam went to war the following year and burnt $120 billion alone on first 4 years of Iran-Iraq war. By war's end Iraq owed $27 billion to Western countries and $50 billion to Gulf States, with inflation running at 40%. So what does Saddam do? Start another war by invading Kuwait.

While the elite Republican Guards were better equipped, the conscript Iraqi infantryman was given as few as 4 live rounds for target pratice during basic training.

yet even with such a poor economy they manage to built some modern weapon

example

AWACS made using Il-76 and french radar

super scud with 1200km range

T-72 with extra heavy armour ( armour made from cement rubber steel and other such material)

super cannon that can launch shells into space
 

Baibar of Jalat

Junior Member
Darth sidious
super cannon that can launch shells into space

Are you talking about Iraq?
The iranians never and will not build a super cannon. Or have they? pretty sure they have not.

P.s Iran has got some good higher educational institutions, definately not a third world country.
 
Iran has a $182 billion economy and annual military budget of $4.x billion,

So Iran's GDP is equal to about 30% of the US defense budget, and their military expenditures are equal to about what Bill Gates makes annually. Interesting.
 

darth sidious

Banned Idiot
Baibar of Jalat said:
Darth sidious


Are you talking about Iraq?
The iranians never and will not build a super cannon. Or have they? pretty sure they have not.

P.s Iran has got some good higher educational institutions, definately not a third world country.

yes a smaller version of the gun is already made before the gulf war and the actual cannon is also under construction but was destroyed after the gulf war
 

ahho

Junior Member
FriedRiceNSpice said:
So Iran's GDP is equal to about 30% of the US defense budget, and their military expenditures are equal to about what Bill Gates makes annually. Interesting.
comparing to the USA does not make any sense at all, the best would be comparing it t neighboring country such as isreal or saudi
 

Vlad Plasmius

Junior Member
super cannon that can launch shells into space

They didn't actually build that. They were developing it, but the actually gun was still on paper.

But be careful about saying Iran is a major superpower - remember these parades are intended to create that impression - they show the elite minority of the Iranaian military. In reality, the majority of Iranian equipment is out of date.

I said Iran is probably going to be a major world power. I never said they'd be a super power or that they are currently a world power. Right now they're just a regional power and they still have to share that with several nations.
 

FreeAsia2000

Junior Member
It is possible that Iran and Pakistan will co-operate in the future in building
weapons systems as the Shah of Iran suggested in the past

Contributing Editor AIR MARSHAL (Retd) AYAZ AHMED KHAN talks about the faulty procedures in our defence planning and procurement sector and recommends reforms that need to take place urgently

One of the major lessons of the 1965 and 1971 wars was that defence planning and procurement policies should be re-tailored to achieve self-reliance in defence production. The low priority given to indigenize major weapon systems by Islamabad was made clear to the senior officers during the 1972 foreign tour of the first regular National Defence College course to Tehran. General Tofanian, Shah’s defence minister and former commander of the Iranian Air Force, answering a question from a NDC student (late Lt General Fazle Haq, then a Brigadier) said, "Iran -Pakistan defence cooperation has been the victim of "PARALYSIS OF ANALYSIS".

Referring to Shah’s offer to President Ayub Khan for co-assembly, joint-manufacture of main battle tanks (MBT’s) Pakistan’s hesitation and GHQ’s astonishing reply that "tank had no future", left the Iranian General Staff speechless, and the Shah angry. This unwise reply infuriated the Iranian ruler, and stalled the possibilities of self-reliance in the vital field of armour manufacture.

Pakistan Army wiz-kids had gone in circles to prove to the Field Marshal that armour i.e. the tank would be a useless weapon platform in a future war. This reply based on the study carried out by the General Staff or armour specialists reflected a state of mental paralysis which has afflicted our defence planners for a long time. Was such a conclusion based on the fact that during the 1965 war, Pakistani tanks from No1 Armoured Division had got stuck in the paddy fields of Khemkaran, and became easy targets for Indian gunners hiding in sugarcane fields? But then No. 6 Armoured Division did well in the Chawinda area to destroy Indian armour advancing towards Gujranwala. Was such a recommendation made due to the Khemkaran experience, or due to the new weapon systems i.e. ATGM’s and guided missile firing fighters and helicopters being inducted into modern armies, which could destroy exposed tanks. Frankly Field Marshal’s advisors were proven right during the 1967 Arab - Israel war. Nasser’s tanks in the Sinai desert became sitting ducks for the Israeli Air Power. Over eight hundred Egyptian tanks caught in the open were destroyed by Israeli Air force fighters. But it must not be forgotten that before going for the Egyptian armour, Israeli Air Force had caught the Egyption Air Force on the ground and destroyed it. Israeli air force had complete air superiority during the 1967 war.

Pakistan armour was not used to any great effect in the ‘71 war. And Pakistani generals were again right when in the 1973 October war, Egyptian and Syrian armies turned the tables on the Israeli Air Force and Armour by destroying it with shoulder fired SAM;s and ATGM’s. But in spite of the Arab and Israeli armour debacles in the 1967 and 1973 wars, and Pak debacle in the ‘71 war, armies every where stepped up their efforts for more and better quality tanks. India started tank manufacture in earnest, and Arjun MBT after completion of intensive test trials is ready for delivery to Indian Army armoured corps. Pakistan lost a golden opportunity for self-reliance in armour manufacture, primarily because of the inability of our decision makers to take bold and timely decisions viz armour manufacture in Pakistan with Iranian cooperation, which certainly was in our long term national interest.

Al-Kalid MBT is a victim of indecisions, time and cost over- runs, and its series production is nowhere in sight. It is worth mentioning that the first Al-Khalid was demonstrated to Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif in early 1992, when General Mirza Aslam Beg was the COAS. Had there been consistency in procurement planning, this vital project surely would have taken concrete shape during the last six years, and we would have seen squadrons of Al-Khalid tanks rolling the 23 March Pakistan Day parades.

General Tofanian also referred to Shah’s offer the 1965 war to fund co-assembly and progressive manufacture of French Mirage fighters in Iran and Pakistan. Pakistan again rebuffed Iranian offer. Pakistan Air Force at the time was engaged in urgent plans to procure Mirage Ill’s and V’s from France, and the Air Staff perhaps felt that the Iranian offer would hinder the pace of procurement of the urgently required fighters. But the Iranian offer merited very serious consideration, because it was being funded by Tehran, and would have been a major step towards self - reliance in the vital field of combat aircraft manufacture. The STORY OF PAKISTAN AIR FORCE does not throw any light on this offer from Iran. Senior PAF officer, and PSO’s at the time may wish to throw some light on this matter.

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I'm not sure that how much the Iranian military would contribute except in
terms of funding.
 

DPRKPTboat

Junior Member
darth sidious said:
yet even with such a poor economy they manage to built some modern weapon

example

AWACS made using Il-76 and french radar

super scud with 1200km range

T-72 with extra heavy armour ( armour made from cement rubber steel and other such material)

super cannon that can launch shells into space

Yes, Iraq did manage to install some upgrades and build some good weapons, but as adeptitus said, the idea of these weapons being used to beat off the coalition was on paper and unrealistic. Most of these weapns were the only ones Saddam put on parade. Yes, those T-72s did have laser-designating rangefinders and ERA, and they did build their own version, but there were only 500 of these in service at the time of the Iraq war, used by the Republican guard. The other tanks were obsolete. People thought that the Mirage F1s in the Iraqi air force would play some part, but it was a similar story - a lack of spare parts grounded the entire air force. The realistic fact was that Iraq was no match for the U.S. in open warfare. And it could be no different for other countires we often consider as the main enemies of the west, such as North Korea, for example.
As for the "Super SCUD", if you're talking about the Al-Hussein, that was also a no show because it barely worked. It was 2 SCUDs welded together for Christs sake!!!:rofl: I didn't hear about the space cannon, but even if it had been built, it wouldn't have saved Saddam's regime.
Iraq's main downfall was Saddam's aggressive policy towards his neighbours and the west and the economic sanctions that resulted. Iran, on the other hand, played the game a bit more - after the Iran-Iraq war no further aggression was made. With the attention focused on Iraq, Iran was left alone, which allowed it to rebuild, no sanctions were placed, which is why Iran is currently a stronger regional power than Iraq was under Saddam. Its basically what Iraq would have been if it had not had its economy destroyed by Saddam. Its only now that it is a major concern of the west.
But remember, it is still a poor country - Argentina is also a poor country - at the monet Iran has the status of a gradually developing nation - but its no China. In terms of modernisation, it still has a long way to go, which is why I'm impressed that its able to produce modern equipment idigenously.
 

darth sidious

Banned Idiot
DPRKPTboat said:
Yes, Iraq did manage to install some upgrades and build some good weapons, but as adeptitus said, the idea of these weapons being used to beat off the coalition was on paper and unrealistic. Most of these weapns were the only ones Saddam put on parade. Yes, those T-72s did have laser-designating rangefinders and ERA, and they did build their own version, but there were only 500 of these in service at the time of the Iraq war, used by the Republican guard. The other tanks were obsolete. People thought that the Mirage F1s in the Iraqi air force would play some part, but it was a similar story - a lack of spare parts grounded the entire air force. The realistic fact was that Iraq was no match for the U.S. in open warfare. And it could be no different for other countires we often consider as the main enemies of the west, such as North Korea, for example.
As for the "Super SCUD", if you're talking about the Al-Hussein, that was also a no show because it barely worked. It was 2 SCUDs welded together for Christs sake!!!:rofl: I didn't hear about the space cannon, but even if it had been built, it wouldn't have saved Saddam's regime.
Iraq's main downfall was Saddam's aggressive policy towards his neighbours and the west and the economic sanctions that resulted. Iran, on the other hand, played the game a bit more - after the Iran-Iraq war no further aggression was made. With the attention focused on Iraq, Iran was left alone, which allowed it to rebuild, no sanctions were placed, which is why Iran is currently a stronger regional power than Iraq was under Saddam. Its basically what Iraq would have been if it had not had its economy destroyed by Saddam. Its only now that it is a major concern of the west.
But remember, it is still a poor country - Argentina is also a poor country - at the monet Iran has the status of a gradually developing nation - but its no China. In terms of modernisation, it still has a long way to go, which is why I'm impressed that its able to produce modern equipment idigenously.

look up project babylon and you will see the super cannon is actualy under construction by the time of the gulf war

as for Al-Hussein you got it wrogn again it uses the primary engine of a SCUD ( based on german V-2) adn a lenghten body to house more fuel this conbine with a 250kg war head caused the increase renge not wielding two toughter
 

utelore

Junior Member
VIP Professional
during the engagments I had with the republican guard NONE of the T-72 that I engaged had reactive armour. some of their T-54/55 had passive type armour added on.
 
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