RedMercury
Junior Member
Enough tankers to let those Su-30s deliver nuclear bombs very very far 
/sarcasm
/sarcasm
Iran close to ordering 250 Su-30MK along with Mig-29/Mig-31
- Thread starter crazyinsane105
- Start date
Vlad Plasmius
Junior Member
Maybe this deal is Iran's way of paying off Russia for Bushehr. After all, both companies are state-owned so the money is ultimately going to the same place.
Iran buys a shitload of Sukhois to replace its F-5s and F-4s and also greatly expand their abilities. Then Russia keeps it promise to finish Bushehr, maybe even promising a few more reactors for repeat business.
As for construction, maybe Iran will build some of them domestically, but some will be built in Russia simultaneously. This would give Iran the benefit of building their own aircraft, but also mean they'd get them quicker as they wouldn't be making them all.
As for the amount, Iran may be considering massive long-range air sorties a la the United States. There have been training exercises reportedly preparing for flights over the Mediterranean Sea. To block an attack by the U.S. it would be crucial for Iran to be able to strike, not only the Middle Eastern bases of the U.S., but also our European bases. They could even be able to hit Brussels with these aircraft. This is especially true when you consider the possibility of them launching from bases in Syria.
These would give them an ability to strike inside Europe. An air sortie of 60 aircraft over Israel would be child's play in this case.
Iran buys a shitload of Sukhois to replace its F-5s and F-4s and also greatly expand their abilities. Then Russia keeps it promise to finish Bushehr, maybe even promising a few more reactors for repeat business.
As for construction, maybe Iran will build some of them domestically, but some will be built in Russia simultaneously. This would give Iran the benefit of building their own aircraft, but also mean they'd get them quicker as they wouldn't be making them all.
As for the amount, Iran may be considering massive long-range air sorties a la the United States. There have been training exercises reportedly preparing for flights over the Mediterranean Sea. To block an attack by the U.S. it would be crucial for Iran to be able to strike, not only the Middle Eastern bases of the U.S., but also our European bases. They could even be able to hit Brussels with these aircraft. This is especially true when you consider the possibility of them launching from bases in Syria.
These would give them an ability to strike inside Europe. An air sortie of 60 aircraft over Israel would be child's play in this case.
I disagree. It's one thing if you are assuming they can operate from Syria but I don't think you could characterize 60 aircraft over Israel as childs play. These SU-30s would be totally dependent on Iran's one AEW Il-76 (not sure if its an A-50 Mainstay or some other variant/modification all I could find under AEW for the Iranian AF was "Il-76") for radar support. The Israelis would target this aircraft ith everything they had and if they shot it down all subsequent air strikes would be dependent on the Su-30s own radars putting them at a massive disadvantage vis-a-vis the Israeli interceptors who would be able to use AWACS support and their own passive sensors without making themselves a big radar bullseye.
As for hitting Europe, they would be dependent on using Turkey's airspace or they'd have to get around Israel and RAF bases on Cyprus. Both are highly unlikely. I don't think that a big fleet of tankers is going to make it very far over Europe with the whole EU trying to shoot it down even if they're escorted by all these SU-30s.
Lastly I'm going to say that I'll believe this order when I see it. As of right now it seems too incredible. And Crazyinsane, where did you find that 2nd article, it doesn't have a source on it.
Violet Oboe
Junior Member
The iranians would probably not put so ´many eggs´into the sole russian basket since they have serious suspicions about Moscows trustworthiness.
Tehran would simply fear that the same guys who are wrecking their nerves on Bushehr for seven years now would play the same nimble games with the Flanker deal. (...Moscow has been indeed sometimes susceptible for US schemes, e.g, the Gore-Chernomyrdin freeze pact of '95 regarding nuclear dealings with Iran)
Moreover the expansion of the IRIAF on this massive scale would destabilize the greater middle east (.. air refuelled Su-30 would be even capable to hit major targets in western europe, as you have correctly mentioned Vlad). Tehran wants to expand her power and influence throughout the region but certainly not by provoking a disastrous war with a US-Israel led coalition.
(Iran would also rock the boat with Ankara and this would currently one of the most stupid things they could do! )
Tehran would simply fear that the same guys who are wrecking their nerves on Bushehr for seven years now would play the same nimble games with the Flanker deal. (...Moscow has been indeed sometimes susceptible for US schemes, e.g, the Gore-Chernomyrdin freeze pact of '95 regarding nuclear dealings with Iran)
Moreover the expansion of the IRIAF on this massive scale would destabilize the greater middle east (.. air refuelled Su-30 would be even capable to hit major targets in western europe, as you have correctly mentioned Vlad). Tehran wants to expand her power and influence throughout the region but certainly not by provoking a disastrous war with a US-Israel led coalition.
(Iran would also rock the boat with Ankara and this would currently one of the most stupid things they could do!
)
Well I think everyone ahs doubts about Moscow's trustworthiness
. Perhaps This story is a preliminary to a much smaller deal...I can see this being used as a bargaining tactic. For example the Iranians could come out demanding 250 aircraft but only really wanting 60-80. This would then allow the Russians to say to the US that they are going along with US wishes and refusing to sell the Iranians the vast majority of the planes they wanted by limiting the sale to 60-80 planes and 5 tankers.
Yeah I just put up the link. Thanks for reminding me.
Violet Oboe
Junior Member
@Finn: our dear friend crazy obviously is checking out a dubious israeli website called ´debka´. Although their stories are mostly a curious mix of fact and black propaganda reading them is really interesting! At least you get some clue about things some people in Israel regard to be important...:coffee:
(Sometimes debka starts a ´test balloon´ like their article about the completed delivery of fuel rods for Bushehr last month. Obviously the detailed story was complete nonsense (.. the russians are evidently stalling) but what the f*** could be the reason behind putting that kind of fabrication on the web??? )
At least you get some clue about things some people in Israel regard to be important...:coffee: (Sometimes debka starts a ´test balloon´ like their article about the completed delivery of fuel rods for Bushehr last month. Obviously the detailed story was complete nonsense (.. the russians are evidently stalling) but what the f*** could be the reason behind putting that kind of fabrication on the web???
)
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Violet Oboe;67992but what the f*** could be the reason behind putting that kind of fabrication on the web???:confused: )[/QUOTE said:Speed up the march to war?
I've been looking at this story on DefenceTalk and DefenceNews and Debka keeps coming up as an unreliable source. Is this the only source, or has this been reported in other articles? Obviously there was the Aviation Weekly article. However that didn't say anything about numbers. Which suggests to me that the Iranians expressed interest in buying a more sane number of planes and Debka took that bit of truth and ran with it.
On a side note, the reported 20 tankers ordered sounds like the sort of "noobish" mistake that a reporter who was trying to make up a story about a massive aircraft order would make. It sounds good/threatening and massive when it is read by most people but not by those who know what they're talking about.
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Vlad Plasmius
Junior Member
Finn McCool
I was speaking more in the matter of, they wouldn't have to worry about being able to get there, which they likely would have to worry about with their present air force. If they can get past the Israeli air force is another matter entirely.
Well, recent events may make the former scenario a little more reasonable. Though, again it's more a hypothetical. Simply, they could do it, so it is a matter of concern.
It did say 250 Su-30MKMs, though I wouldn't know about the Il-78. Is it possible, though, that they could be used for other aircraft Iran has?
Violet Oboe
They have been reliable when it comes to weapons deals, however, and I think we're fast approaching a period where our objections will be completely ignored.
Honestly, I think right now they'd stand a good chance of winning.
I was speaking more in the matter of, they wouldn't have to worry about being able to get there, which they likely would have to worry about with their present air force. If they can get past the Israeli air force is another matter entirely.
Well, recent events may make the former scenario a little more reasonable. Though, again it's more a hypothetical. Simply, they could do it, so it is a matter of concern.
It did say 250 Su-30MKMs, though I wouldn't know about the Il-78. Is it possible, though, that they could be used for other aircraft Iran has?
Violet Oboe
They have been reliable when it comes to weapons deals, however, and I think we're fast approaching a period where our objections will be completely ignored.
Honestly, I think right now they'd stand a good chance of winning.
what I dont understand is why you are so worried how other nations such as Iran arming themselves. Why must everything military be taken as a threat? Couldnt sometimes a nation just protect themselves by buying weapons such as Iran, instead of attacking EU as you mentioned??