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Lnk111229

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Registered Member
Anyone watching Dune 3 trailer? I personally don't know what hype of this trilogy! But well apparently we have Space Jihad where Space Arab fighting Space China. Fascinating times.
 

Temstar

Brigadier
Registered Member
Anyone watching Dune 3 trailer? I personally don't know what hype of this trilogy! But well apparently we have Space Jihad where Space Arab fighting Space China. Fascinating times.
I watched it, I think that bunch that Paul's Jihad are fighting are based off Japanese. There's like one general guy in there wearing a samurai style armour and headpiece. Still I think it's pretty on the nose. Frank Herbert is always going on about how cultures merge and evolve over time in his books, hence things like zensunni being a merge of earth religion. To stay true to theme when you crib off real culture with Dune you should always mix things up a bit. The slight Mongolian vibe with Sardaukar is great.

Plus I think Dune Messiah is just not as good of a book to start with.
 

Lethe

Captain
Anyone watching Dune 3 trailer? I personally don't know what hype of this trilogy! But well apparently we have Space Jihad where Space Arab fighting Space China. Fascinating times.

I previously sketched a few thoughts about the first film in the trilogy and its relation to the books here and here.

I watched it, I think that bunch that Paul's Jihad are fighting are based off Japanese. There's like one general guy in there wearing a samurai style armour and headpiece. Still I think it's pretty on the nose. Frank Herbert is always going on about how cultures merge and evolve over time in his books, hence things like zensunni being a merge of earth religion. To stay true to theme when you crib off real culture with Dune you should always mix things up a bit. The slight Mongolian vibe with Sardaukar is great.

Plus I think Dune Messiah is just not as good of a book to start with.

I think Dune Messiah is the book that fundamentally elevates the story beyond another iteration of the civilised white man encountering the noble savages, become enchanted with their ways and leading them against their oppressors, as we see in Dances with Wolves or Avatar. Messiah is the somber coda showing how it all falls apart, and how it was always destined to fall apart. The parts of the novel that stick with me are those where Paul knows what awaits him, but is unable to break free of the path that has been set: the reborn Duncan Idaho is a trap, visiting his former Sardaukar comrade-at-arms is a bad idea, Chani...

The Ixians always gave me "East Asia" vibes, though they are never a primary focus of the books.
 
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Temstar

Brigadier
Registered Member
I think Dune Messiah is the book that fundamentally elevates the story beyond another iteration of the civilised white man encountering the noble savages, become enchanted with their ways and leading them against their oppressors, as we see in e.g. Dances with Wolves or Avatar. Messiah is the somber coda showing how it all falls apart, and how it was always destined to fall apart.

The Ixians always gave me "East Asia" vibes, though they are never a primary focus of the books.
IMHO the book that best elevates the story is God Emperor of Dune. I think it did a very good job of "I'll deliberately act like a villain so you all hate me, because that's for your own good" thing.
 

Lethe

Captain
IMHO the book that best elevates the story is God Emperor of Dune. I think it did a very good job of "I'll deliberately act like a villain so you all hate me, because that's for your own good" thing.

God Emperor is fantastic too, for that reason and others. I would draw a parallel between Messiah and God Emperor. The ideas explored in Messiah were already present in the first novel, but there they are somewhat overwhelmed by its triumphant conclusion, i.e. Paul breaching the Shield Wall on the back of Shai-Hulud and ascending the throne. In that sense, Messiah isn't so much a left-turn as the necessary carrying to fruition of what was always implicit in the tale. Similarly, God Emperor explores in greater detail the themes of long-term consequences and change over time that were always part of Dune, particularly in the form of the Bene Gesserit, who famously consider themselves as acting in the long-term interests of humanity. By the time God Emperor rolls around, Leto despises the Bene Gesserit because they have failed to live up to their ideals, preferring instead to perpetuate their own comfortable existence, and in doing so have condemned him to pick up the slack instead. The character and fate of Darwi Odrade in Heretics and Chapter House is a response to that critique.
 
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