Infantry Combat Equipment (non-firearm): Vests, Body Armor, NVGs, etc.
- Thread starter by78
- Start date
I was honestly pretty disappointed with the entire 19 and 21 series of infantry equipment upgrades.
The Type-19 helmet, first of all, exemplifies a lack of just any kind of forward thinking. The rails have this weird picatinny system that only covers the topmost portion of the ear cover, with no space at the back for an AMP arm-like system without modification. And the digital NVG attached is excusable, if not solely for the fact that the PLA has not much better in the analogue space. But the Bionicle arm shows that either corners were cut in machining proper mounts, or that the NOD itself weighs about as much as a peanut --- not promising. And the 191 and 192 rifles, although better than the terrible ergonomics of the 95 and 97, are still not as good as the AR platform. The charging handle is reciprocating, the mags are bulky thick plastic, the handguard isn't free-floated nor ergonomic, and it in general doesn't seem as conducive to upgrades as an AR is. The 191's only saving grace is that it is very wieldy and light (by the looks of it).
The 21 upgrades didn't do much either. The boots were turned into a zippered much, so much so such that every infantryman you see on the PR photos has their bootlaces loose because of the zipper.
At least for infantry equipment, the PLAGF is still very much in its 'copy the US' phase, not that I am berating them for that. But I just don't understand why. There's a large pool of talented and imaginative designers, so why did the PLA create this vest that looks like it came out of 2003 and despite its bulky nature only holds 4 mags by default? Why couldn't they have made a futureproof rifle? Why can't they just a higher an airsoft designer or some shit to make a equipment that is actually fucking competitive with that of the US Army? It's all just so tiring at times. I don't understand what's so hard about this.
The Type-19 helmet, first of all, exemplifies a lack of just any kind of forward thinking. The rails have this weird picatinny system that only covers the topmost portion of the ear cover, with no space at the back for an AMP arm-like system without modification. And the digital NVG attached is excusable, if not solely for the fact that the PLA has not much better in the analogue space. But the Bionicle arm shows that either corners were cut in machining proper mounts, or that the NOD itself weighs about as much as a peanut --- not promising. And the 191 and 192 rifles, although better than the terrible ergonomics of the 95 and 97, are still not as good as the AR platform. The charging handle is reciprocating, the mags are bulky thick plastic, the handguard isn't free-floated nor ergonomic, and it in general doesn't seem as conducive to upgrades as an AR is. The 191's only saving grace is that it is very wieldy and light (by the looks of it).
The 21 upgrades didn't do much either. The boots were turned into a zippered much, so much so such that every infantryman you see on the PR photos has their bootlaces loose because of the zipper.
At least for infantry equipment, the PLAGF is still very much in its 'copy the US' phase, not that I am berating them for that. But I just don't understand why. There's a large pool of talented and imaginative designers, so why did the PLA create this vest that looks like it came out of 2003 and despite its bulky nature only holds 4 mags by default? Why couldn't they have made a futureproof rifle? Why can't they just a higher an airsoft designer or some shit to make a equipment that is actually fucking competitive with that of the US Army? It's all just so tiring at times. I don't understand what's so hard about this.
Because it's too much money for not much gain. Infantry just need a working rifle, helmet, maybe a vest. Most importantly, in a true peer war, infantry survive maybe couple of months to days in combat. Why invest money on things that will be "destroyed" anyway.
From PLA perspective, the most important is missile power, then air power, then naval power, then drones, then helicopters, then big vehicles like tanks artillery finally after every single thing is finished, then infantry at dead last. So the fact that they are even getting an upgrade is too much.
I understand, but the PLA did undergo that entire infantry equipment overhaul through Type 21 and Type 19. I just feel like it was so hard to get wrong but somehow the PLA managed to. There's a strong high-quality replica gear market in China, so why they couldn't have just whipped up something even 80% as good as US army standard issue I won't understand. There's no harm in giving soldiers better equipment, and the money is being spent on it either way, but out of both programs we got 2007 GWOT levels of gear.
by78
General
Funny you mention 80%. This is the ingrained "good enough" culture endemic to the old peasants who still populate the ranks of the PLAGF. I had attributed the various glaring deficiencies to chronic underfunding, but lately I've changed my mind. If the PLAGF can't even procure boots that don't fall apart in a few months or instruct troops on the proper wear of vests, then funding isn't the problem. The problem is a lack of professional competence. It seems that the PLAAF and PLAN get the best personnel and leadership, while the PLAGF is the boneyard, and the PAP is the bilge. They had better start purging the old dead weights from the ranks before it's too late.
Last edited:
All this gear is likely temporary, They'll be quick to come up with something new and replace it.
I'd say prototype stage.
Probably the same reason as why we got the QBZ-191 instead of the supposed sino-SCAR. by78 mentioned this but the higher ups who makes the decisions for the PLAGF are a bunch of old timers who should have retired long ago because they haven't caught up with the forward thinking like all the other branches. That, added with the fact that the PLAGF has the least funding out of everyone, spells disaster.
Do PLAGF *actually* have the least funding? From what I heard funding is split mostly equally between the three major branches. Other than infantry PLAGF is doing pretty well off with a dozen of new types of IFV with advanced systems such as GL-6 APS and unmanned turrets coming into service and next gen MBT is on the horizon also Z-XX heavy attack heli is coming soon. These are all big ticket items also equipping a mechanised brigade with all the latest equipment is no cheaper than a naval destroyer etc and with the most service member of all branches just trying to pay everyone's wage probably amount to a huge sum.
Sorry, meant the boots on the ground infantry. The PLAGF does get a lot of funding, but that funding isn't used mostly for the troops.
And what is so magical about super expensive FN SCAR? Does it fire any special bullet that is even marginally better other than good old AK-47?
Let's face it, infantry combat doctrine and technology has been set in stone since WW2 and haven't changed one bit. We are still using assault rifles, grenades and trenches. US tried to change things with OICW, but we know how that turned out.
The goal of the infantry has always been the same, to be eyes on the ground. They will idenity enemy and bring in the artilley, the air strike and direct the tank assaults. Very few enemies actually die by Infantry gun fire.
If China can upgrade infantry but still have much cheaper cost then that is the best thing. There is no point trying to match western countries with super inflated budgets who can't even field a 100k army. Countries like france, UK have tiny armies despite having 50 billon dollar plus budgets. They over spent on each soldiers. China is doing the more efficient approach.