Infantry Combat Equipment (non-firearm): Vests, Body Armor, NVGs, etc.

Sunbud

Junior Member
Registered Member
Very crude, but it gets my point across. Islands are not taken by soldiers floating in the water surrounding the island. And as you said, a picture says a thousand words. I know some assault craft are camoed in blue which makes sense. Humans belong on the land, the air and the sea are the domain of the birds, the fish and our machines. Even in the short term, you wouldn't play a 15 minute airsoft game wearing bright blue when everyone is wearing green. If the marines' objective is just the beach head then fair enough, but even a campaign of up to a few days further in-land would be disastrous. An island that is 5km across can't really expect a force rotation either. And I am not comparing PLAMC to USMC, just common sense.

Screen Shot 2018-04-26 at 22.13.52.png
And this, pretty much explains everything.
78fa2e7f-f726-48fd-ba9b-b7d549e3994f.jpg
No doubt the blue works great in the water, but soldiers fight on the land. Ships fight in the sea.

Could you please link the discussion on the camo thread? I would like to learn more and see if there is anything I am missing.


This has been discussed in length in a separate thread in this forum. Now I find a way to make it straighter to explain. One picture is better than thousands of words.

If you have been to tropical islands you will have seen this.

This is the kind of environment that PLAN Marines would fight in the near term. See the colors.
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This is the PLAN camo (helmet). Look at the background water.
0238cf75860112c314b528.jpg

This is the PLAN camo compared with US Marines camo. Which one do you think is the best to fit the Chinese battle environment?
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The US marine corps is more of an Army than a pure marine. It started as a pure marine, but now it has transformed to conduct infantry tasks that usually belongs to the Army. That broadened profile has demanded its camo to fit better on land rather than in the water near the beach.

When and IF PLAN marines begin to extend their mission to more inland tasks, they will change accordingly, but we will have to wait and see. Personally, I don't expect that kind of change (in the way of US marines) because marines are less capable than heavy Army troops on land no matter what. If you beef up the marines, you make them army, then what is the point to have a separate Marine corps to begin with?

The US marine is a totally different story and unique without peers in the world because of politics. It is institutionalized as the ONLY force that US president can mobilize without approval from the congress. So it becomes a min army+navy+airforce.
 
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taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
Very crude, but it gets my point across. Islands are not taken by soldiers floating in the water surrounding the island. And as you said, a picture says a thousand words. I know some assault craft are camoed in blue which makes sense. Humans belong on the land, the air and the sea are the domain of the birds, the fish and our machines. Even in the short term, you wouldn't play a 15 minute airsoft game wearing bright blue when everyone is wearing green. If the marines' objective is just the beach head then fair enough, but even a campaign of up to a few days further in-land would be disastrous. An island that is 5km across can't really expect a force rotation either. And I am not comparing PLAMC to USMC, just common sense.

View attachment 46439
And this, pretty much explains everything.
View attachment 46440
No doubt the blue works great in the water, but soldiers fight on the land. Ships fight in the sea.

Could you please link the discussion on the camo thread? I would like to learn more and see if there is anything I am missing.

The highlighted texts are the key of the choice. Yes, PLAN's objective is just beach head IMO. Most of their near term targets are tinny islands in SCS. The only big target that has a deep forest in PLAN's near term mission is Taiwan. The inland job to that target is the Army who wears green cemo. In that scenario, PLAN marines will take and secure the beach head as landing site for the heavy army to roll on and go inland.

The point is, Chines Marines are for the beach head, the inland work is for the Army. In an assault, the ships carrying the Army is not so far behind the Marines. The transmission of tasks between them would be seamless just like one body.

Regarding the past discussion, I don't have a link in my head, just use the search function.
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
The US marine is a totally different story and unique without peers in the world because of politics. It is institutionalized as the ONLY force that US president can mobilize without approval from the congress. So it becomes a min army+navy+airforce
This is totally wrong. The President of the United States of America as Commander in Chief can mobilize any and all arms of the US Army for a mission at his choosing. The Marines are attached to the Navy and as such deployed with them. The Marines are a rapid response unit as a whole, with all there assets available in a Expeditionaly group to respond day zero of a conflict where the Army as a whole would need to ready deploy from bases. The Air Force needs a mix in order to get there aircraft into range.
The US marine corps is more of an Army than a pure marine. It started as a pure marine, but now it has transformed to conduct infantry tasks that usually belongs to the Army. That broadened profile has demanded its camo to fit better on land rather than in the water near the beach
The USMC has always been a Marine corps it started as Naval infantry as time has gone by it evolved into a Amphious Expeditionary group. What is unique about the USMC is that they are able to employ armor and aviation to support there operations. However that comes from prolonged fighting. As a force once they land they intend to fight till the job is done.

Now to the camo. Blue camo for Navys is popular these days but it is only really there for 2 reasons 1 is vanity to make sure that you know they are Navy and not Army. Second is to hide stains especially paint and oil.
Blending to the sea foam is useless as camo is intended to work from medium to long range. And any camoflauge ability the blues might have would be broken when the enemy sees a large armored Amphious landing craft crossing the water leaving a large wake. Or when the troops are next to said vehicles on the beach.
 

Sunbud

Junior Member
Registered Member
Indeed in any Taiwan campaign there will definitely be additional force support. I managed to find the quote regarding IFF though.
I read on Chinese BBS somewhere the PLA Marines purposely adopted a camo that does not blend in with surroundings so the AFVs' gunners and naval fire-support forward observers know where their troops are and (a) don't cause friendly fire, and (b) don't hold fire for fear of causing friendly fire.

No other marine force in the world has the mission profile demanded of the PLA Marines. If the landing zone is too contested, the USMC + others will simply look for another one. The PLA Marines has no such options when it comes to Taiwan as Taiwan is tiny and if the landing zones are all contested then bad luck they're assaulting a heavily-defended landing zone. Under such circumstances, accurate and dependable fire support is much more valuable than camouflage.

With increasing adoption of PGMs, however, the dependency on Mk 1 eyeballs for fire-support target acquisition decreases so it is possible that the PLA Marines will switch to a conventional camo within the next decade. Instead they might all wear an IR-reflective pattern on their backs so friendly FLIRs can see where their vanguards are. Still, PGMs and FLIRs are very recent additions to the PLA and I would expect some time before they roll out new camo schemes to take advantage of these new technologies.
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
Looks like a new combat uniform for the special forces, complete with a new camo pattern and new combat boots...

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First thoughts, are we sure these are new pictures as the PLA issued a MARPAT clone circa 2003-2007.
Second if they are recent then are we sure they are PLA and not PAP? Who have there own patterns.
If no on both then we may have yet another special unit pattern.
 

Sunbud

Junior Member
Registered Member
I see what you mean TerraN_EmpirE, it does kind of look similar to the tiger stripe kind of camo worn by PAP. The soldiers pictured I believe are paras due to the badge, but the same camo as PAP.
China at 6th Warrior Competition.jpg
 

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
This is totally wrong. The President of the United States of America as Commander in Chief can mobilize any and all arms of the US Army for a mission at his choosing. The Marines are attached to the Navy and as such deployed with them.
I got my understanding from many other places that I can not quote. But I find
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from Wikipedia which seems to be authoritive by quoting congressional acts and USC "charters".
As outlined in
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and as originally introduced under the
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, three primary areas of responsibility for the Marine Corps are:
  • Seizure or defense of advanced naval bases and other land operations to support
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    ;
  • Development of tactics, technique, and equipment used by
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    forces in coordination with the Army and Air Force; and
  • Such other duties as the President or Department of Defense may direct.
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This last clause derives from similar language in the
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acts "For the Better Organization of the Marine Corps" of 1834, and "Establishing and Organizing a Marine Corps" of 1798.
Also, from this page
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It says, the US armed forces consists of five branches, USMC is not part of the Navy. It can use the Navy assets if needed, but not under the command of the Navy.
The USMC has always been a Marine corps it started as Naval infantry as time has gone by it evolved into a Amphious Expeditionary group. What is unique about the USMC is that they are able to employ armor and aviation to support there operations. However that comes from prolonged fighting. As a force once they land they intend to fight till the job is done.

Now to the camo. Blue camo for Navys is popular these days but it is only really there for 2 reasons 1 is vanity to make sure that you know they are Navy and not Army. Second is to hide stains especially paint and oil.
Blending to the sea foam is useless as camo is intended to work from medium to long range. And any camoflauge ability the blues might have would be broken when the enemy sees a large armored Amphious landing craft crossing the water leaving a large wake. Or when the troops are next to said vehicles on the beach.

That is true to USMC. But we are talking about PLAN Marines mission set which does not include (for the moment at least) fighting more than the beach head.
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
Also, from this page
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It says, the US armed forces consists of five branches, USMC is not part of the Navy. It can use the Navy assets if needed, but not under the command of the Navy.
The USMC is under what was called The Department of the Navy and Navy Secretary now The Department of the Navy and Marines corps under the Secretary of the Navy.
It is technically a separate branch, but I can tell you from personal experience The Marines rely on the Navy for Medical, Religious, Officer training and are assigned under fleet AOR commands. It's a conjoined branch basically.
  • Such other duties as the President or Department of Defense may direct.
That basically apply to all services. The President of the US can command action by any and all services with out going to congress. That is why The missile Strikes in Syria were done by the USAF and USN with out going to Congress. in point of fact the last true decoration of war by the US was World war 2. All the services answer to the President.

That is true to USMC. But we are talking about PLAN Marines mission set which does not include (for the moment at least) fighting more than the beach head.
That's how it seems atleast. However Naval Infantry forces have proven before that just kicking down the door or rather establishing a beachhead is just the start of operations.
I see what you mean TerraN_EmpirE, it does kind of look similar to the tiger stripe kind of camo worn by PAP. The soldiers pictured I believe are paras due to the badge, but the same camo as PAP.
View attachment 46442
IT seems to have a bit more Coyote brown in the new pattern but I want to cover my bases
When I looked at it earlier I was on my phone. Now I am on my lap top with a better screen. the color way resembles more a
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There is also an
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that comes to mind.
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
This has been discussed in length in a separate thread in this forum. Now I find a way to make it straighter to explain. One picture is better than thousands of words.

If you have been to tropical islands you will have seen this.

This is the kind of environment that PLAN Marines would fight in the near term. See the colors.
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

This is the PLAN camo (helmet). Look at the background water.
0238cf75860112c314b528.jpg

This is the PLAN camo compared with US Marines camo. Which one do you think is the best to fit the Chinese battle environment?
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
I have seen people try and justify the PLAMC pattern again and again, yet I point out that really It is vanity. And as proof I offer the PLAAF Airborne pattern.
skyblue.jpg

This is a pattern that really has no redemption. I mean they are airborne so they are in the sky you might argue, except they will be suspended by a huge parachute which is a rather convenient target when in drop. Or on an Aircraft. I mean really this and the PLAMC pattern are only going to work in an Aquarium.skyblue1.jpg
It's more a pattern designed to establish an Identity. The claims of IFF fail in low light as very few Night vision systems are designed to show color.
 
D

Deleted member 13312

Guest
The highlighted texts are the key of the choice. Yes, PLAN's objective is just beach head IMO. Most of their near term targets are tinny islands in SCS. The only big target that has a deep forest in PLAN's near term mission is Taiwan. The inland job to that target is the Army who wears green cemo. In that scenario, PLAN marines will take and secure the beach head as landing site for the heavy army to roll on and go inland.

The point is, Chines Marines are for the beach head, the inland work is for the Army. In an assault, the ships carrying the Army is not so far behind the Marines. The transmission of tasks between them would be seamless just like one body.

Regarding the past discussion, I don't have a link in my head, just use the search function.
The Task of securing a beach head goes way beyond the water or sand covered portions. In a real life situation marine units must at least secure a significant portion inland to prevent counter attack and to establish a buffer zone.The whole "Army is right behind" claim ignores the fact that there is not actual way for the Marines to withdraw safely until they pushed back the enemy a comfortable distance away, so they are still obliged to fight along side the Army units as well.
And even the most tiniest of islands in the Pacific has a complete 2 stage biodiversity so to speak, with beaches and then rain forests. Those that don't won't be worth an amphibious assault in the first place.
There is never a good reason why the PLAN Marines adopted such a ridiculous outfit that only works if one is fighting 24/7 in water, and only sea water. While defending it use at this point sound more like sheer stubbornness then any logical reasoning.
 
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