Infantry Combat Equipment (non-firearm): Vests, Body Armor, NVGs, etc.

Aniah said:

Since you gonna get your hand on a 191, would you happen to know about the rumors of an export version of 5.56 / 5/45 QBZ 191?

Click to expand...

Frankly I have no idea. But why bother when you might soon be able to buy an original 5.8 one from some UWSA asshole? Perhaps I've said too much! I'll ask about it.

Oxhide said:

Oh dear, it seems yall found my work already!

I should've checked the thread. Looks like I've been discovered already since the last time I viewed. Let me rail off a bunch of random information.

The carrier itself and helmet are for sure commercial. I think the camo pattern was banned from export recently.

The plate is PLA issue. However I can only prove this by process of elimination here. Commercial Chinese plates are not monolithic Silicon Carbide like this. They're also not usually marked in Mandarin. However the information label on the back was removed! One of the plates is much thinner than the other two. The performance is also absolutely astounding! Stopping tungsten isn't a common thing.

I'm also a little confused as to why there is a distinction between issued military plates and commercial market plates as the PLA uses both as far as I've noticed.

I've also seen Norinco "strike face" marked plates being falsely marketed as RMA plates in Europe, a first case of counterfeit (though still perfectly functional) body armor!

I think the Q19 helmet is polyethylene. Still trying to get my hands on one.

I actually have located a QBZ-95 with AP 5.8 ammo outside of China, though my commitment to the US Army prevents me from giving it a try. I can't travel OCONUS right now.


It would have to be a specialized plate, .50 cal proof plates are absolutely doable! Ceradyne made a 50 plate back in the day.

If anyone has any questions/information/corrections let me know! I don't want to put out the wrong info when the videos are finished. It happens sometimes.

Click to expand...

Good information, this clarifies much more. I think given that the information label is removed there is a very solid chance this is PLA armor, especially now that you've mentioned more details. Some people on here disagreed with me however in the end even for smaller things such as accessories, uniforms, and so forth there is already a market in China either way, what can you do to restrict people from selling their old uniforms, kit, or commercially bought gear? Nothing of course, yet some try and dispute this when you can buy surplus just like in the USA, it's just infantry kit afterall. Armor could of course (illegally) slip away like you mentioned, I think given all the information you mentioned, there is a very solid chance and even if it's not gov't contract I think it's fine to handwave that the standard issued body armor should be somewhere around this performance.

People on here made the distinction between commercial armor and government contract but pretty much all of the arms are made by the same old large industries, I personally don't pay much heed to it but I was sleep deprived then and probably went on autopilot . The main reason why I personally bothered between such distinction was due to lack of information at the time, now with these things that you mentioned I don't bother anymore with such an distinction; it's not like commercial or gov't contract really matters if it's made for specific standards that a unit requires whether it be police or army, etc, etc. I think we can handwave the performance aspect with a disclaimer of what educated guesses are made.

Without the original label though I will say this is the extent of things unless if we get some PLA grunt to spill some more beans for identifying the plates unless if someone here has more photos from other sources of exposed plates and other such imagery that can help us sleuth.

Oxhide said:

I never said that the American military was immune from similar behavior. I would know! There is this misconception that the Chinese are good at rooting out their own soldiers that sell gear. Chinese customs and security of that nature with goods are still very exploitable. It is the attitudes of the PLA soldiers themselves that are self policing in that there is a lot of mistrust on an individual level against the would be largest buyers of stolen military stuff (Americans) and vice versa. I hope that makes sense.


I can explain more on this topic and actually give examples of some of the stuff I've personally experienced with PLA/PAP soldiers/police and corruption, but as you say I don't know anything about the Chinese, so I'm not going to. You said it, so you must already know all about me and it must be true!

I have quite a few more items that are far more sensitive (and expensive) from the PLA than body armor. Corruption is a reality and should be discussed, especially on a forum dedicated to the military.

But this entire thread is on individual combat equipment. So this is kinda off topic. I just found those posts interesting and wanted to point out that there are many such "traitors" so to speak. The problem is immortal and worldwide. It is not limited to China.

Click to expand...

The only things more expensive than body armour from the PLA is probably their night vision goggle and maybe guns?
Unless you have something like anti-tank weapons lol…

Have you ever shot PLA’s 5.8 Ammo? Maybe you can test it and post some videos?

Oxhide said:

Frankly I have no idea. But why bother when you might soon be able to buy an original 5.8 one from some UWSA asshole? Perhaps I've said too much! I'll ask about it.

Click to expand...

This explains the 03 & 95 rifle . The Wa also got 191s now? Either way if you end up there enjoy the tea.

LawLeadsToPeace said:

Let’s not go off topic y’all. I remember the corruption part was actually discussed before in a different thread a long time ago. TLDR: Xi’s military reforms stopped and rooted it out. If you want to know more about it, I’m sure someone here who is much more knowledgeable than me can correct that old view. There are a lot of things on this forum that contradict and disprove the mainstream perspective of the Chinese military.

Click to expand...

Bro, congrats to the promotion.

ficker22 said:

Bro, congrats to the promotion.

Click to expand...

Thanks man! I’ll do my best to keep the Ukraine thread as clean as possible. So y’all don’t have to worry about me banning many users here in this thread for going off topic lol.

@Oxhide


Bro,

do you know something about maraging Steel plates as body armor ? AFAIK a Level III+ AR550 is .3 inches thick and up to .5 thick maraging steel plates are possible to manufacture in the west, while offering better yield and tensile strength per given mass/volume compared to AR550 and up.

Have stumbled upon maraging steel at uni and the properties do seem favourable in comparison to normal steel e.g. AR500/AR550 for plates.


1 inch = 2.54cm


Here a link to what I found out:




List of NIJ standard plates

Aniah said:

You look at the PLA as a whole and somehow you get the idea it's only slightly above Russia? The PLA and the Chinese government in general sure as heck wouldn't be where it is today if that were the case. Americans in general love exaggerating all things negatively when it comes to the PLA. That's corruption statement is asinine. I won't deny he is knowledgeable about the equipment though.

Click to expand...

It's not difficult to understand such sentiment, because it has been 70 years since the US forces have last fought against the Chinese...or almost 40 years since the Chinese have fought anyone.

A change in tones will require a shooting war, especially one where US troops have to go up close and personal against the PLA.

MwRYum said:

It's not difficult to understand such sentiment, because it has been 70 years since the US forces have last fought against the Chinese...or almost 40 years since the Chinese have fought anyone.

A change in tones will require a shooting war, especially one where US troops have to go up close and personal against the PLA.

Click to expand...

Eh, it's unlikely that there would be close engagements between soldiers, more likely for it to be lot of exchanges of missiles (whether from the air, sea or ground) in case of a hot conflict.

Oxhide said:

Frankly I have no idea. But why bother when you might soon be able to buy an original 5.8 one from some UWSA asshole? Perhaps I've said too much! I'll ask about it.

Click to expand...

This will confirm the internal structure of the gun