Infantry Combat Equipment (non-firearm): Vests, Body Armor, NVGs, etc.

plawolf · Oct 26, 2020

enroger said:
Looks like PLA has fully committed to this type of CCD based NODs, I wonder how well these works compared to traditional NVG, any similar civilian products we can compare with?

Since those are digital display, it would be easy to project image from gun sight with the press of a button in the fore grip. Don't know if they implemented it yet but it seems like the logical next step for this kind of setup, superior to IR laser in mid to long range too.

The closest thing I am aware of would be the Sionyx Aurora.

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But it needs to be stressed that the designers seemed to have gone out of their way to make it US only, and is limited to off-the-shelf commercially available, repurposed digital camera sensors, rather than a purposed developed sensor as would be the case with the Chinese unit.

As such, I don’t think this would be a good reflection of the state-of-the-art of what China can develop, which should be pretty evident from the sheer size differences between the Aurora and the Chinese new digital NOD.

Although it needs to stressed that the Chinese NOD is actually split in two parts, you have the optics and display at the front, but also a battery pack and potentially some of the processing back-end in the pack attached to the back of the helmet, so the overall size difference of the complete packages may not be quite as extreme as just comparing the front end of the Chinese NOD against the whole package of the Aurora.

But I would also expect a huge difference in performance between the two, with the Chinese NOD performing significantly better in terms of latency (I would expect the Chinese unit’s latency to be so low as to be undetectable by humans for it to be accepted by the PLA as field deployable) and resolution.

Interestingly enough, being a digital unit, there is a significant chance the Chinese unit is actually colour, as opposed to monotone as with traditional IIC based NODs, with significant practical advantages that would bring.

You also have the potential to add features like crosshairs synced to the rifle/smart grip.

enroger · Oct 26, 2020

plawolf said:
The closest thing I am aware of would be the Sionyx Aurora.

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But it needs to be stressed that the designers seemed to have gone out of their way to make it US only, and is limited to off-the-shelf commercially available, repurposed digital camera sensors, rather than a purposed developed sensor as would be the case with the Chinese unit.

As such, I don’t think this would be a good reflection of the state-of-the-art of what China can develop, which should be pretty evident from the sheer size differences between the Aurora and the Chinese new digital NOD.

Although it needs to stressed that the Chinese NOD is actually split in two parts, you have the optics and display at the front, but also a battery pack and potentially some of the processing back-end in the pack attached to the back of the helmet, so the overall size difference of the complete packages may not be quite as extreme as just comparing the front end of the Chinese NOD against the whole package of the Aurora.

But I would also expect a huge difference in performance between the two, with the Chinese NOD performing significantly better in terms of latency (I would expect the Chinese unit’s latency to be so low as to be undetectable by humans for it to be accepted by the PLA as field deployable) and resolution.

Interestingly enough, being a digital unit, there is a significant chance the Chinese unit is actually colour, as opposed to monotone as with traditional IIC based NODs, with significant practical advantages that would bring.

You also have the potential to add features like crosshairs synced to the rifle/smart grip.

Yeah, now I think PLA is taking a different approach to night fighting. Instead of the old nvg + ir laser approach, PLA soldier will mainly rely on gun mounted sight for search and engage, while the NODs only need to provide basic situation awareness.

I believe this method is much more viable than ir laser in long range fight(since gun mounted sight can afford to be much heavier and more powerful. Ir laser dot gets less and less visible in the distance, it also expose the shooter if the enemy has ir too). For cqb the performance of nvg doesn't matter so much as long as it is low latency.

Not to mention low cost and ease of maintenance... I can see why the PLA higher up settle on this.

plawolf · Oct 26, 2020

enroger said:
Yeah, now I think PLA is taking a different approach to night fighting. Instead of the old nvg + ir laser approach, PLA soldier will mainly rely on gun mounted sight for search and engage, while the NODs only need to provide basic situation awareness.

I believe this method is much more viable than ir laser in long range fight(since gun mounted sight can afford to be much heavier and more powerful. Ir laser dot gets less and less visible in the distance, it also expose the shooter if the enemy has ir too). For cqb the performance of nvg doesn't matter so much as long as it is low latency.

Not to mention low cost and ease of maintenance... I can see why the PLA higher up settle on this.

I don’t think the PLA is going with the dedicated night riflesight route, because we very rarely see pictures of PLA soldiers with dedicated night rifle sights fitted.

Furthermore, in all instances I can recall, PLA soldiers are wearing their new NOD monocle on their right eye, which will be their shooting eye, which makes no sense if they are to also get a dedicated night vision scope for their rifles.

Add in the practical complexity of switching scopes just as the PLA is starting to issue daytime optics as well as the costs of issuing everyone with two NODs, and on balance I just don’t see it.

Dedicated night rifle optics would probably be reserved for specialists like special forces and/or squad designated marksmen and/or for specialist missions rather than being general issue.

For night fighting, the PLA most likely have an integrated IR laser/illuminator in their smart grips (which also ties back to helmet mounted white lights to eliminate the other possible role for having electronics in the grip).

Wirelessly linked crosshairs projections might be a future upgrade possibly, but feels a little too bleeding edge to be on the smart grip just yet.

enroger · Oct 26, 2020

plawolf said:
I don’t think the PLA is going with the dedicated night riflesight route, because we very rarely see pictures of PLA soldiers with dedicated night rifle sights fitted.

Furthermore, in all instances I can recall, PLA soldiers are wearing their new NOD monocle on their right eye, which will be their shooting eye, which makes no sense if they are to also get a dedicated night vision scope for their rifles.

Add in the practical complexity of switching scopes just as the PLA is starting to issue daytime optics as well as the costs of issuing everyone with two NODs, and on balance I just don’t see it.

Dedicated night rifle optics would probably be reserved for specialists like special forces and/or squad designated marksmen and/or for specialist missions rather than being general issue.

For night fighting, the PLA most likely have an integrated IR laser/illuminator in their smart grips (which also ties back to helmet mounted white lights to eliminate the other possible role for having electronics in the grip).

Wirelessly linked crosshairs projections might be a future upgrade possibly, but feels a little too bleeding edge to be on the smart grip just yet.

I remember seeing a picture of the new daylight/NV dual channel sight on QBZ-191? But you're right it is rarely seen, it could be a case of the army distributing the cheap stuff first...

The smart grip already incorporate some communication function from official video, not unreasonable to assume some sort of wireless system is in place. As for video streaming, DJI drones can already stream 4k video 60 frame/seconds with latency measured in 10ms.

Though considering EM spectrum of the battlefield I'd feel safer with wire connection.

IMO this would be what the so called Future Warrior program promised many years ago now finally practical enough and cheap enough.

plawolf · Oct 26, 2020

enroger said:
I remember seeing a picture of the new daylight/NV dual channel sight on QBZ-191? But you're right it is rarely seen, it could be a case of the army distributing the cheap stuff first...

The smart grip already incorporate some communication function from official video, not unreasonable to assume some sort of wireless system is in place. As for video streaming, DJI drones can already stream 4k video 60 frame/seconds with latency measured in 10ms.

Though considering EM spectrum of the battlefield I'd feel safer with wire connection.

IMO this would be what the so called Future Warrior program promised many years ago now finally practical enough and cheap enough.

On video streaming, even really basic level stuff like a digital crosshairs, there are a lot of factors to consider.

You already touched upon potential jamming, now factoring in hundreds to thousands of troops all using smart grips in close proximity, the potential for signals interfere is quite significant. On top of that you have the potential for active jamming from enemy forces.

Another thing to consider is battery life. Wireless streaming eats up a fair amount of battery capacity pretty quickly. The smart groups already have a inserted bipod that will eat up a lot of internal volume, so you really don’t have much space to batteries. Nor would you want a great big heavy battery at the front of your rifle even if you could fit a big one in there.

To be honest, I just don’t see those problems being adequately addressed until we move into integrated powered rails on weapons. Them you can run power and signals via the rails to sidestep most of those issues.

Until then, we might get various pre-cursor units and proof of concept prototypes, maybe even limited deployed models, but we will not see widespread general issue, as is the case with the new NODs and smart grips.

Bright Sword · Oct 26, 2020

Snowmobiles in Ladakh:
India did opt for snowmobiles. Dated news, and its not clear if these are still in use.
These snowmobiles would still need fuel and special engine modifications to avoid altitude related power loss.
Also the terrain is not always flat like Canada. There are crevasses and rocks beneath the snow. The snowmobiles make a noise giving away the locations.

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Bright Sword · Oct 26, 2020

Crampons:
With ice and snow setting in Ladakh, it is assumed the PLA would be equipped with add on crampons on the boots to avoid slips and falls.
Alternatively micro-spikes might work.
Russians seem to use crampons and on flat terrain they used to use skis, but now use motorized sledges instead.

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LawLeadsToPeace · Oct 26, 2020

Bright Sword said:
Snowmobiles in Ladakh:
India did opt for snowmobiles. Dated news, and its not clear if these are still in use.
These snowmobiles would still need fuel and special engine modifications to avoid altitude related power loss.
Also the terrain is not always flat like Canada. There are crevasses and rocks beneath the snow. The snowmobiles make a noise giving away the locations.

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Wrong thread.

by78 · Oct 26, 2020

More frontier patrol gear. Thermos/canteen, sun visors, outer coats, mittens, etc.

by78 · Oct 26, 2020

Infantry Combat Equipment (non-firearm): Vests, Body Armor, NVGs, etc.

plawolf

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enroger

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plawolf

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enroger

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plawolf

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Bright Sword

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Bright Sword

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LawLeadsToPeace

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by78

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