Infantry Combat Equipment (non-firearm): Vests, Body Armor, NVGs, etc.

Mohsin77 said:

Technically speaking, you do need IR lasers to aim with NODs. It's practically impossible to get a sight picture with NODs on, especially during a firefight. You'll probably end up damaging the NOD or accidentally flipping it up when it bounces off your upper receiver.

This is how you hold your rifle with NODs (you look over the sight and aim with the laser):

And you don't keep your lasers on, you implement light discipline, turning them on to aim, fire and then turn them off with the pressure switch.



That's not a good solution either. You need NVGs to see around you, for situational awareness. You can't just walk around looking through your mounted optic all the time. And projecting the optic's image on a display is also very sub-optimal. What you want is a panoramic NVG paired with IR lasers.

There's no point in arguing about this guys... This is just how it is and you should want the PLA to have this paired solution.

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Oh I definitely agree with you in regards to the infantry needing ir’s. I’m just saying that one can still aim with their nods on albeit that being extremely uncomfortable and much more ineffective than using ir’s.

Mohsin77 said:

wait... where are the IR lasers? You need them to aim with NVGs:

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@Mohsin77, @AZaz09dude, @LawLeadsToPeace
You need them to aim with head mounted NVGs.
until someone figures out the sci-fi idea of night vision contact lenses or flat Night vision glasses that can be worn and work like regular glasses. It is impossible to get a proper alignment of sights and eye with NVG tubes in the way. This is where the IR pointer comes in. It allows the shooter to “hip shot” aimed fire by looking where the IR dot is.
In this you are correct @Mohsin77.
However with the increasing prevalence of NVG to both friend and foe that is a double edged sword so to speak. The IR illumination giving away your position to a foe with their own NIR NVG imaging systems. This issue has started to glimpse into reality in Afghanistan where some Taliban forces have been seen sporting NVG of their own. The grade type and manufacturing as well as support of such is questionable however. Yet vs a formal army this would be a real issue.
The work around for this is simple though. Mounting a Night vision Image intensifier tube on the rifle. It’s a bit old school going back as far as world war 2 early gen IR systems were mounted to the rifle. The German Vampire system or American M3 carbine. Russian NV tubes were mounted to rifles this is the reason why the AKN and later series until the most recent types had the side rail mounting brackets similar to those also used on the SVD. It wasnt for the PSO sight but to quick attach a NSP series and latter successors.
Modern tubes can similarly be mounted some makers even designing specialized iterations for the task. The advantage being that it would work with the existing day optic and be bore sight to the rifle without need of an active projector.
The farther modification of this is what is seen with the latest issue NVG systems where in the Head mounted NVG receives digital input from the rifle mounted Tube. Again no need of active projector.
In the near future, the premier armies next generation of rifle sights seems likely will integrate these capabilities in for military systems. The concept has been around for some time. Already Tracking point rifles has been fitted with night vision modes as well as data streaming to smart glasses for off bore shooting.

The tubes won't work for CQB though... So you'll still need the NVG+IR combo until those HUD-like devices get mainstreamed. But yea, mounting an NV sight for combat in open terrain is fine, there you have time to flip your NVGs up and then aim through the NV sight, while stationary and behind cover.

With all the discussion on running NVGs and no IRs, I suddenly remembered that QBZ191s are also issued with these things. Although we are not sure if they are night vision or thermal, but they definitely should be one or the other. If that is the case, then these definitely works better than NVG + IR, because I heard that IR lasers do not hold zero very well.

When you are on the move you use your NVG to see, but when you engage enemies, you put up the NVG and aim with the electronic optic.

But for CQB.... perhaps an IR is still needed....

EdgeOfEcho said:

View attachment 64275


With all the discussion on running NVGs and no IRs, I suddenly remembered that QBZ191s are also issued with these things. Although we are not sure if they are night vision or thermal, but they definitely should be one or the other. If that is the case, then these definitely works better than NVG + IR, because I heard that IR lasers do not hold zero very well.

When you are on the move you use your NVG to see, but when you engage enemies, you put up the NVG and aim with the electronic optic.

But for CQB.... perhaps an IR is still needed....

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They're thermal

Mohsin77 said:

The tubes won't work for CQB though... So you'll still need the NVG+IR combo until those HUD-like devices get mainstreamed. But yea, mounting an NV sight for combat in open terrain is fine, there you have time to flip your NVGs up and then aim through the NV sight, while stationary and behind cover.

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Not necessarily. If you are using the sight through the NV tube you might not be using a head mounted tube. As
such though it would be narrow field of view it would be fine for use. Due to cost some armies don’t issue helmet mounted types widely.
The main aim of the IR pointer is to allow shooting when wearing a pair of NVGs. It’s a bit of a cheat. But that cheat fails if you have a foe who is also NVG equipped.
As to the HUD like they are already entering service with US forces.

EdgeOfEcho said:

With all the discussion on running NVGs and no IRs, I suddenly remembered that QBZ191s are also issued with these things. Although we are not sure if they are night vision or thermal, but they definitely should be one or the other. If that is the case, then these definitely works better than NVG + IR, because I heard that IR lasers do not hold zero very well.

When you are on the move you use your NVG to see, but when you engage enemies, you put up the NVG and aim with the electronic optic.

But for CQB.... perhaps an IR is still needed....

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depends on the maker systems and mount. Some IR are very stable some are crap.
Longer range weapons tend to factor larger clip on image systems. But that has less to do with the pointer more with the limits of the NVG and ability to pick up the defused light as well as the parallax of the mounting. As such IR pointer systems generally range out about as far as a Submachine gun range of a hundred meters give or take.
The main advantage I think is more one of signature. If an IR beam is bouncing around it’s probably because it’s attached to someone. As the old adage says Tracers work both ways. If you see a line of light coming to your direction shooting at its point of origin is probably an effective way to stop it.

TerraN_EmpirE said:

it would be narrow field of view it would be fine for use.

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That's not fine for use, for CQB, that's what I'm saying. You can't be walking around clearing corners in the dark, while looking through a pin-hole. Your situational awareness would be practically zero, it's too dangerous with a high risk of friendly fire. At the very least, you will be too slow and ineffective. CQB is too fast and too dynamic, with very little margin of error.

But in an open field, or a non built up area, sure, go for it.

As to the HUD like they are already entering service with US forces.

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What system is this? I haven't heard about it yet.

Mohsin77 said:

What system is this? I haven't heard about it yet.

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It is still in R&D though.

EdgeOfEcho said:

View attachment 64275


With all the discussion on running NVGs and no IRs, I suddenly remembered that QBZ191s are also issued with these things. Although we are not sure if they are night vision or thermal, but they definitely should be one or the other. If that is the case, then these definitely works better than NVG + IR, because I heard that IR lasers do not hold zero very well.

When you are on the move you use your NVG to see, but when you engage enemies, you put up the NVG and aim with the electronic optic.

But for CQB.... perhaps an IR is still needed....

Click to expand...

The smart grip/bipod combo has a side electronics element, which could easily house an IR laser. Given that the smart grips were issued with the new NODs, it makes sense that they complement each other.

gelgoog said:

To be honest I don't see the advantage of fancy scopes in what look like short barrel rifles to me.
But yeah basic things like gloves should be widely available particularly for the guys in mountainous or cold regions.

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I think it's all to do with conditioning one's fingers and hands. It'll toughen the skin around the fingers and hands.