Indian Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

Bose

New Member
Its a sad incident and I understand the stuffs that can come into mind. But Sindhu in the submarines name does not definitely mean the river Sindhu.

The Sindhu could mean anything (like you mentioned) from water to river to sea. And in the case of Indian Navy it means Ocean. And hence INS Sindhurakshak was Protector of the Ocean and INS Sindhuratna is Pearl of the Ocean.
 

bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
It is not my intention to insult any Indian members of this forum, please read.

My condolences to the families of those shipmates killed in this accident.

Navy Hymn (first stanza)

Eternal Father, Strong to save,
Whose arm hath bound the restless wave,
Who bid'st the mighty Ocean deep
Its own appointed limits keep;
O hear us when we cry to thee,
for those in peril on the sea.

In my opinion with 20 years of service with the US Navy these recent accidents point out several problem areas.

1) Lack of proper training in, all areas including ship-handling, hazardous material handling, all safety, firefighting and damage control.

2) Lack of proper maintenance of equipment. Any military equipment, particularly naval gear, will not operate properly if said gear is not properly maintained. Accidents and breakdowns will ensue.

3) Lack of leadership within the Indian Navy...from the Top ..down. It is leaderships responsibility to insure sailors are properly trained in all aspects of their jobs..ALL aspects.
 
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Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
As I said, the Indian Navy has to get a handle on this. I saw that their equivalent of the Chief of Naval Operations resigned today, taking responsibility for this. Yet, the fault and the problems clearly run deeper than one man.

Sadly, by all accounts he is a very good, career Naval Admiral who has been saddled with less than adequate funding and decisions made by the political appointees and politicans over him. A person can only do so much with an organization and with equipment as numeros, large, and complex as that if he does not receive the support and funding to be able to operate and maintain the force adequately.

Well, hopefully, this will be a wake-up call for them. There are clearly deficincies in operation, safety, and maintenance that must be addressed.

If the Indian Navy expects to continue the type of growth that they contemplate, and modernization, then they have to spend the money necessary not only to buy and/or build those vessels and equipment...but then also to adequately man them, retain their personnel, and then properly care for and maintain it all with very strong training and procedures that cannot be skimped on.

Hopefully, the Indian Navy will do this and move forward a better force
 
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bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
Excellent post Jeff! Well stated.

If the Indian Navy expects to continue the type of growth that they contemplate, and modernization, then they have to spend the money necessary not only to buy and/or build those vessels and equipment...but then also to adequately man them, retain their personnel, and then properly care for and maintain it all with very strong training and procedures that cannot be skimped on.

Hopefully, the Indian Navy will do this and move forward a better force.

Any military on this planet may have the latest gear available to them. Without the money, training & leadership..that gear will be rendered useless or dangerous.

The IN needs to step back take a look at itself and make corrections as necessary head on before any more shipmates are lost.

AND.. the politicians need to let the military run the military.
 
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aksha

Captain
INS Sindhuratna fire: Is Vice Admiral Shekhar Sinha quitting too? Vice Admiral Shekhar Sinha, the senior-most Indian naval officer after Admiral D.K. Joshi, is also likely to resign over the series of submarine accidents in the navy, sources have said.
Sources told Headlines Today that Vice Admiral Sinha, the Western Naval Command Flag Officer Commanding in Chief, has expressed desire to put in his papers taking moral responsibility for the submarine mishaps.

Admiral D.K. Joshi on Wednesday quit as the Indian Navy chief after a fire in INS Sindhuratna in which two officers are feared dead.

After Admiral Joshi, Vice Admiral Sinha's quitting will upset the entire chain of command and succession.

Meanwhile, Defence Minister A.K. Antony said he was "sad about the whole development".

"Yesterday Admiral Joshi met me and handed over his resignation. The Navy Chief was very much disturbed and requested me to accept his resignation with immediate effect," Antony told reporters on Thursday.

Antony said he met Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and also consulted others on the Navy chief's resignation.
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there are reporrts coming in that there was friction between the navy and the defence ministry.indias armed forces seem to be very unsatisfied with the defence ministry.the army has not got new artillary pieces since three decades.the army had selected the bofors gun about 4 years ago. the defence ministr is still haggling with the company over its size. the soldiers are not provided new shoes since almost 5 years.again the army had selected a firm.but the defence ministry still has to make a decision.
Between 2001 and 2011,1330 personnel in the army, navy and air force committed suicide, with the army alone accounting for 1056 of the cases and displaying a troubling uptrend. There were also 75 deaths from fratricide during this period, with the army accounting for 72 of these.

In fact, the army seems to be losing more men to suicide and fratricide than to enemy bullets. The number of soldiers who die “battling their internal demons” is said to be four times the number killed in counter-insurgency operations in India’s conflict-wracked Kashmir and the Northeast.Given the nature of their job, stress is inevitable among soldiers the world over. The problem has deepened in India as soldiers are deployed to deal with insurgencies over prolonged periods. Because of operational requirements and a shortage of personnel, they are rarely given time off to visit their families or to deal with problems back home“Overworked officers have little time to spare for their jawans or to pay attention to their problems or even to notice their depression.”
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added to the that defence ministry got into a war of words with the army general vk singh,trying to retire him before his time,the army was not at all happy.in jan 2012 the rajputana mechanised regiment,a regiment from hissar ,and paratroopers regiment agra moved towards delhi in a coordinated manner.the defence minster ak antony admitted about the troop movements in the parliament and also that he or the mod knew nothing about the movements.the army denied the movements.ak antony now states that is a story by the media. next the airforce which has been using the mig 21 s from 1970 are still forced to use them since neither rafale nor tejas show any sign of entering service soon.because of the ultraprolonged negotiations with dassault resulted in its price being doubled.the apache lonbows which were selected 3 years back have not arrived yet.air refuelling tanker airbus was slected 2 years back,but the finance ministry creating a circus by saying that cheaper ilyushins should be bought.during an interview with the former air chief when the media calling the mig 21 the flying coffins,the air chief defended the mig 21 saying that the mig 21 is an excellent air craft but blamed the defence ministry saying that the trainer aircraft arrived 10 years late and iaf was forced to train new and green pilots on mig 21s .unnamed officials in the iaf say that ak anony is more interested in maintaining his corruption free image than the armed force s,after waves of corruption casses hit the gov.this resulted in negotiations being drawn out.now we know that even the navy is disgruntled as there is lack of personnel
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and they have to persist with old kilos.added to this the police forces across the country are disgrundled too with the media and gov. blaminng them for every litte thing.in southern india when a police officer was fired because he did not act act like a politician's servent almost started a revolt,there is anger in the police forces as when they arrest criminals they turn out to have links wih politicians who force them to release them .the police feel that something wrong has been done to them and especially since the media calls them chor police bhai bhai(theief an cop are brothers).the defence minister has insulted publicly 2 of the services in 5 years .if this continues the pseudo coup of jan 2012 may not be what they will face next
 
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TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
India Looking Abroad For Intermediate Jet Trainers
By Jay Menon [email protected]
Source: AWIN First
February 27, 2014
Saddled with obsolete training aircraft, the Indian air force (IAF) has decided to snub the long-delayed, indigenous HJT-36 Sitara intermediate jet trainer (IJT) and purchase new trainers from abroad.

The IAF has issued a request for information for a lightweight, single-engine, twin-seat trainer with a secondary light attack capability, an official at India’s ministry of defense says.

“We have asked the vendors to provide cost details for the direct purchase of IJTs for batch sizes of 10, 20, 30 and 50 aircraft,” he says.

The RFI comes weeks after Indian Defense Minister A.K. Antony said the much-delayed Sitara IJT is likely to be operational this year. “All efforts are being made by the Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd. [HAL] for achieving the final operational clearance by December 2014,” Antony had said.

The IAF has been reluctant to exercise the option of buying an IJT since the state-run HAL has been developing a trainer for the force for the last 15 years.

“We are forced to take this decision as deadlines for getting the operational clearance for Sitara have been breached on a number of occasions,” the IAF official says.

The RFI for new a IJT states that the aircraft should be capable of operating from airfields at least 2000 meters above mean sea level (AMSL), with a goal of 3,000 meters. Submissions are due on April 4.

The official says the aircraft should be capable of carrying at least 1000 kg (2,200 lb.) of external load and be equipped with a minimum of five hard points, with each stressed to carry at least 300 kg.

“The aircraft should be capable of employing a lightweight gun-pod with adequate ammunition for at least five seconds of firing time [and] reusable rocket pods, and [should] be able to carry at least [four 250-kg bombs],” he says.

IAF also has made it clear that potential vendors will be put through a trial evaluation in India on a “no cost, no commitment” basis and a staff evaluation would be carried out to analyze the results of the field evaluation before shortlisting the equipment for introduction into service.

The deal will include costs for comprehensive annual maintenance support, including all spares program for supporting operations of 10, 20 and 30 aircraft at a utilization rate of 30 hr. per aircraft per month.

The lack of trainer aircraft to train new IAF recruits has been affecting the force, with new pilots often unable to handle highly demanding fighters like MiG-21s. Almost 40% of the 1,050 crashes recorded by the IAF since 1970, for instance, have been attributed to “human error.”

The HJT-36 was to have entered service with the IAF in June 2012 as a Stage-II trainer, replacing the aging HAL Kiran Mk. 1 and Mk. 2 in service. However, in 2011, flight-testing suffered a major setback when a Sitara crashed in stall testing.

Kiran Mk-I was due to be phased out this year but its lifespan has been extended by four years. Maintenance of Kiran Mk II has become a major issue because no support for its Opheus engine was available.

“IJT is a delayed project, I admit... We have faced major delays in getting the new Russian engines for IJT. These issues have been sorted out...Now, the aircraft’s development is in “advanced stages of certification with more than 800 test flights completed so far,” HAL Chairman R.K. Tyagi told Aviation Week recently.

Indian fighter pilots are trained in three stages: first on a basic trainer aircraft, then on an IJT and finally on an advanced jet trainer.

While the IAF does its basic training in the 26 Pilatus PC-7 Mk. 2s, out of a total order for 75 aircraft; the advanced jet trainer role is filled by BAE Systems Hawk 132s, which HAL is making under licenced production in India.

HAL also is trying to develop its own HTT-40 turboprop for the basic trainer role.

As per estimates, with 240 new trainee pilots joining the service every year, IAF requires 181 basic trainers, 85 IJTs and 106 advanced jet trainers. India has already inducted the bulk of the 123 Hawks ordered for its air force and naval pilots in an overall project worth around 160 billion rupees ($2.8 billion).

The IAF has signed two contracts with HAL for delivery of 12 limited-series-production IJT aircraft and 73 series-production IJT aircraft. HAL has confirmed the delivery of aircraft in a phased manner after initial operational clearance is granted. HAL was approved to receive 1.80 billion rupees in July 1999 to develop the aircraft and build two flying prototypes.
New flight trainer for India
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
jan 2012 the rajputana mechanised regiment,a regiment from hissar ,and paratroopers regiment agra moved towards delhi in a coordinated manner.the defence minster ak antony admitted about the troop movements in the parliament and also that he or the mod knew nothing about the movements.the army denied the movements.ak antony now states that is a story by the media.
All of this sounds anecdotal to me.

Is there friction between services over spending? Of course. That happens everywhere.

Did elements of the Indian Army attempt a coup with paratroopers and mechanized forces actively moving on New Delhi? I do not believe it for an instant. I have a lot of friends in India and with Indians who live here now. I have never heard of this incident, or any like it, and the people I know would know of something like this.

As I said...there may have been exercises, that does not mean a coup. I think Antony hit on the issue at the last.

aksha said:
...neither rafale nor tejas show any sign of entering service soon.
Well for the Rafael, this is not surprising. They have not been purchased or even built yet.

As for the Teja...really?

I believe that on December 20, 2013, the second phase of Initial Operational Capability was approved. ( see:
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)So, over two months ago, ther Tejas received its second phase of initial operation approval.

Seven air force prototypes had been tested for almost ten years. Five naval prototypes have been being tested since 2010.

Eight Limitied Series Production (LSP) aircraft were built in 2012.

The first forty Series Poduction aircraft are being built now (see:
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), twenty to the initial operation configuration, and the next 20 to a full operational cpapability. The 1st twenty will then be upgraded later. The production rate is slated to be 16-20 aircraft per year.

The Indian Air Force's Aircraft & Systems Testing Squadron has received four aircraft, LSP-7 and 8, and SP-1 and 2. They are slated to receive more this year.

The 45th Indian Air Force squadron, the Flying Daggers, is also being stood up with Teja aircraft. It will be based in Bangalore before being moved to Sulur. The first four aircraft for that Squadron, SP3 through SP 6, are in the process of being delivered. These inductions and active service of Initial Operating Condition aircraft are critical to moving the Tejas forward to Full Operational Capability (FOC) by Spring to summer of 2015.

After that, the Indian Air Force plans to stand up six more Squadrons of twenty aircraft, and the Indain Navy plans on two squardons of twenty aircraft.

So, the Tejas is currently being delivered to active squdrons and has entered service with Initial Operating Capability condition.
 

aksha

Captain
All of this sounds anecdotal to me.
there was unexplained troop movement to delhi here is proof
Army's 'joint drill' planned a month later with Air Force, reveals ex-IAF chief


Read more at:
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A day after Lt Gen A K Choudhary, the then DGMO said that the UPA government had been alarmed over the movement of two army units towards New Delhi on January 16, 2012, former Air Chief Marshal (retd) NAK Browne, then IAF chief, revealed on Friday that one of the two movements - that of para commandos from Agra - had actually been planned for a month later as a joint exercise with the Air Force.

At the same time, Browne also denied the army's explanation that the movement of the paras unit had been to check out the possibility of their 'marrying' with the C-130s in Hindon.

"We had just acquired the C-130s, and the paratroopers were scheduled to conduct an exercise to test the aircraft and its capabilities. This was scheduled a month after the issue of the troop movement came to light," Browne was quoted as saying.

Adding further, Browne maintained that the Air Force was never informed about the troop movement from Agra, at a time when the then Army Chief General V K Singh approached the Supreme Court against the government on the controversy surrounding his birth date.

Former DGMO Choudhary had told The Indian Express on Thursday that Hindon was the destination only on paper. "The para guys were only going to the artillery unit in Gurgaon though on paper, they were to go to Hindon," he had said.

Choudhary, had also said that he was not even aware of the movement of para commandos when quizzed by then defence secretary Shashi Kant Sharma at their late night meeting on January 16, 2012.

The former Air Force chief's disclosure now raises the question why the para commandos were moved in January when a full-fledged exercise had been scheduled for a month later.

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viv1990

New Member
Registered Member
All of this sounds anecdotal to me.
Is there friction between services over spending? Of course. That happens everywhere.

Yes there was a big friction b/w previous army chief and Mod/bureaucracy. which had deteriorated over his "age issue" and got worse till his tenure ended, resulting in zero trust between civilians and army. This troops thing is part of that drama (planted news by some sect. in mod) to get back at army chief, who incidentally has joined the main opposition party today...
 

viv1990

New Member
Registered Member
TROPEX-2014


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60 ships and submarines, and 75 aircraft took part in Tropex, the navy's largest exercise. Including this INS Chakra.

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The deadly INS Chakra, India's only nuclear hunter/killer sub at the Tropex exercise. Has been now fully integrated.
 
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