Indian Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

Nevermore

Junior Member
Registered Member
Aero-engine technology stands as the crown jewel of high-end technologies, its sensitivity surpassing even that of nuclear technology. China, the United States, Russia, and the United Kingdom all approach the transfer of such technology with extreme sensitivity and caution. Moreover, the complete transfer of this technology signifies the permanent loss of a high-end client—a former customer transformed into a competitor in the marketplace.
 

Gloire_bb

Colonel
Registered Member
It remains unclear when we'll hear news about the engine jointly developed by India and France. Would the French be foolish enough to sell fourth-generation engine technology to India?
See for similar deals elsewhere. Unlikely French will share parts that truly matter (hot part), and without that it's effectively GL for India.
 

jospence

Just Hatched
Registered Member
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Genuinely shocking choice, I understand the problems HAL has had with deliveries but you're essentially asking companies which haven't designed aircraft to be in charge of designing a 5th generation aircraft? At this point India should scrap any plans for AMCA and attempt to take Germany's spot on the FCAS/SCAF project. AMCA was already looking to be at least a generation behind Chinese aircraft if it ever entered service around 2040.

France was already planning for FCAS to be carrier capable, so it really does make sense if India is willing to finance (which is a huge IF for any Indian defense project).
 

lantis

New Member
Registered Member
Genuinely shocking choice, I understand the problems HAL has had with deliveries but you're essentially asking companies which haven't designed aircraft to be in charge of designing a 5th generation aircraft? At this point India should scrap any plans for AMCA and attempt to take Germany's spot on the FCAS/SCAF project. AMCA was already looking to be at least a generation behind Chinese aircraft if it ever entered service around 2040.

France was already planning for FCAS to be carrier capable, so it really does make sense if India is willing to finance (which is a huge IF for any Indian defense project).


Not shocking when you look at it from a macro perspective. At this point, India is looking to develop an aviation ecosystem. India realises that it is already late in the race and can't win. So instead of fastracking, it is managing expectations.

For quite a while, India has been working on offloading responsibilities to the private sector. This is another nudge to it. Artillery guns to light vehicles. There is Bharat Forge and Kalyani. For missiles, BDL and Brahmos Aerospace. For drones, Ideaforge and Newspace. For guns, SSS Defence. For ships, Larsen and Toubro.

India saw some success from this experiments before and it is applying it to newer areas. Aircraft development and Rockets. Ofcourse, they will need handholding. DRDO and ADA will work with Larsen and Toubro, Tata Advanced Systems and Kalyani. Not to mention, all three have deep pockets. Tata Group has little experience I guess. Assembles parts of Apache helicopters and C295 aircraft. Kalyani Group is a artillery major by now. Larsen & Toubro has the most experience. From ships to vehicles to artillery to even India's nuclear submarines, L&T has hand everywhere.

So the 3 choices are not that bad.
 
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jospence

Just Hatched
Registered Member
I do think diversification needed to happen with the Indian aviation industry and I have no doubt about the competency of the other companies involved, my big concern is that this is a super risky project to have as their first aircraft even with some of the best engineers in the world and handholding from DRDO and ADA. I suppose India is in a position where it needs to take those risks, but I really would have liked to see the companies involved be given the task of designing a jet trainer beforehand just to give them proper experience.
 

mossen

Senior Member
Registered Member
I do think diversification needed to happen with the Indian aviation industry and I have no doubt about the competency of the other companies involved, my big concern is that this is a super risky project to have as their first aircraft even with some of the best engineers in the world and handholding from DRDO and ADA. I suppose India is in a position where it needs to take those risks, but I really would have liked to see the companies involved be given the task of designing a jet trainer beforehand just to give them proper experience.

I have my doubts about the competency of the companies involved. But at this point, does India have any choice? HAL was given a privileged position ever since independence -- 80 years almost. What has it done with it? Scarcely little.

There's another angle here. It's hardly a secret that many of the biggest business houses in India are gigantic donors to the BJP. Just like in America, the defence contractors have deep pockets and typically controls politicians to do their bidding in Congress.

There's also a political issue at play here. By spreading out India's MIC bets to various private companies except the state-owned HAL, the ruling dispensation can always blame private businesses for failures. HAL is a state-owned enterprise. The buck ultimately stops at the PMO. Not so for these businesses.

To me the exact breakdown of India's public-private split for its MIC misses the forest for the trees. The fundamental issue is that India has a weak industrial base and the engineering talent it gets either moves abroad or moves into services (e.g. software engineer). I've posted salaries from HAL on this forum before. You're just not going to get top talent for 50-60K rupees per month.

I suppose the private companies can afford to pay more, but I doubt they can compete with FAANG recruitment in India let alone top Western firms abroad. As long as this is the case, the Indian MIC will continue to stagger forward haphazardly.
 
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