Are the Indian soldiers trying to learn how to ride horses?
Indian Military News, Reports, Data, etc.
- Thread starter bd popeye
- Start date
Before 2025, there may have been some combat value in the Indian carriers despite their deficiencies and the deficiencies of the MiG-29s. But now that the whole world knows that the PAF, each carrier's 12 MiG-29s are going to serve as little more than targets for the PAF. No sane commander will commit them to battle and suffer the potential humiliation. If these planes had the standoff range of Brahmos, then they might at least provide some utility, but it would probably still be too risky to use them.
Deleted. off topic.
Last edited:
kwaigonegin
Colonel
That's is both correct and profound. The modern LB turbofan is one of the single most difficult complicated machinery ever made by man.
Yes, harder than even a rocket engine. A rocket engine only needs to work once.
A LB jet engine is basically a control explosion that needs to work for hundreds if not thousands of times every time over the course of it's entire operating history.
It didn't change much in 2025.
PAF just doesn't have resources to control deep into the the Indian ocean.
Migs now are behind in radar and bvraam range(against J-10ce), both matter mostly in competitive air to air against fights. This was the case before 2025 (basically they're f-16 blk 50/52s).
Their strike capability, as well as capability to intercept less challenging targets, didn't meaningfully change.
So didn't J-10CEs time on station at range, and range/payload metrics. It isn't flanker.
China has been sending a rocket every other week to space for years now. Yet it has only recently completed the WS-15 engine and even now is still in process of making sure its usable in mass production.
So the idea India can get all this complex stuff done because they launched something to the moon doesn't make sense. Having reliable modern weapons that can cope with all the changing circumstances in milliseconds is different from having a one way rocket that doesn't really have obstacles in the way.
There were reports that Dassault lost signals from 6 of the Rafales it sold to India, but only 3 (or 4?) seat ejections occurred. Also Pakistan stated they only shot down 3 Rafales.
I wondered whether 3 of the planes were shot down in such quick succession and without warning that as soon as the other 3 pilots realised what was happening (maybe they also saw the final approach of the missiles) they decided to eject from their planes without waiting to find out who's turn it is next. Maybe they though that the Pakistani side intended to shoot all of them down.
India government thus far is refusing Dassault to send people over to check on the Rafales, claiming that the air bases are not safe.
I wondered whether 3 of the planes were shot down in such quick succession and without warning that as soon as the other 3 pilots realised what was happening (maybe they also saw the final approach of the missiles) they decided to eject from their planes without waiting to find out who's turn it is next. Maybe they though that the Pakistani side intended to shoot all of them down.
India government thus far is refusing Dassault to send people over to check on the Rafales, claiming that the air bases are not safe.
It is a combustion engine with basic principles understood for more three-quarters of a century.
The real complexity is the mass production of these things. You need an industrial complex to build these things with thousands of parts repeatedly with precision and output them in the hundreds.
In the modern world, the semicon production and process chains are even more complex than the jet engine ones and chips made in the tens of billions.
In both cases, it means only a handful of nations are industrialized enough to mass produce them.
Look at the number of Indian space launches every year. They are literally just a handful. If you are making five rocket engines per year then you can basically do that in lab conditions (some smart people building examples at a laboratory somewhere.)
The Indian space narrative falls apart quickly with space being commercialized like in China or the US. There is absolutely no Indian presence in this phase of space exploration with the industrialization, mass production, of space vehicles and equipment.
India could make a jet engine (kaveri) in what is basically a lab setting but could not productionize it because it simply does not have the industrial base.
Basically, India has enough smart people to make a few rocket engines or demo turbofans in a lab. It is simply not industrialized enough to mass produce TFs or chips (or rocket engines, to be perfectly blunt.)
I think we give Indians far more credit than they deserve even though we don't give them a whole lot to begin with. They are really that bad when it comes to the industrial complex.
Last edited:
Indian has it good when you want to make a PowerPoint presentation pitch like bankers and consultants. Like good talking points.
Unfortunately doing stuff at industrial level is boring and doesn't involve any fancy talking. It involves being able to maintain a constant flow of doing something complex continuously though without failures. And though it's not exciting, it's where the actual work is done.
Last edited:
It is immensely hard to industrialize. Outside the West and East Asia, there are no fully industrialized economy.
The closest in the Global South is probably India, Brazil, Turkey, South Africa and Iran. But there is a massive chasm between those and the West/East Asia.
I have more confidence in the Korean program to power the KF-21 with an indigenous engine than anything from India for the AMCA.