Indian Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

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ougoah

Brigadier
Registered Member
Wow I had no idea the Indians are getting ripped off so badly with those Su-30MKI prices. WOW.

This thing's been dropping all over India in the last two decades without enemy action. It doesn't even have a first generation AESA and no long range missiles either. Did nothing against PAF in 2019's skirmish. Which means the Su-30MKI is useless against JF-17s and F-16s. Didn't prevent PAF from shooting down a Mig-21, didn't shoot down any PAF assets, didn't prevent PAF ground strike, didn't aid situational awareness to prevent their own forces from friendly fire. Up to $120M for such a machine in a package presumably lol.
 
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supersnoop

Major
Registered Member
Brumby said:
Having a diversified fleet and in small numbers will inevitably result in a more complex logistics tail and that comes with higher maintenance cost. Any future acquisition outside of the present fleet will invite greater scrutiny to justify it. This is one of the issue that the IAF will have to deal with in addressing their fighter capacity gap especially when considering F-21 or F-18. In an ideal world, the IAF should buy more Rafales beyond the present number of 36 as it has already invested in the necessary infrastructure. The problem is IMO the IAF cannot afford to buy more.


I have not seen a single news source reporting that the 12 planned SU-30MKI will be imported from Russia. The news source that I have seen confirms that it will be locally assembled by HAL - which had been the case for all of India's SU-30MKI except for the first batch of 50.
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The piece of news that seems inexplicable is that each of the SU-30MKI will cost close to US$120 million. The most recent contract cost with HAL is $70.3 million each and this latest buy is far more than most recent contract. This is notwithstanding that it only cost $42.15 million each if they were fully assembled in Russia. This is the premium penalty for India's indigenous effort.
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SU-35 has only very limited tactical upside for the IAF and plenty of strategic downside as a considered buy. India has over the years invested a lot into its SU-30MKI and the present Mk 3 is a combination of Russian, Israel, French and Indian effort. The SU-35 as the Chinese have found out is impossible to integrate with indigenous systems. The IAF is presently migrating out of their obsolete stock of Russian R-77 and R-27s AAM and replacing them with I-Derby and MICA. SU-35 does not fit into their upgrade path.

Longer term, the plan for the Super Sukhoi upgrade is to take on board the developments coming off from the SU-57 thus bypassing the SU-35 systems.



I agree that the IAF should buy more Rafale beyond the 36 but there are no stated plans because one, I don't think it can financially afford it and two, the IAF intends to pursue what is described as the Strategic Partner procurement initiative. In my view that translates to another round of convoluted never ending acquisition process that is best described as "objectively dysfunctional".
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I don’t think I-Derby or MICA works with Su-30 at the present time. I-Derby is a proposal, but also a homegrown Astra missile as well.

Anyway, that would make logistics even worse since every plane in IAF inventory has its own weapons with no commonality.
 
coolieno99

coolieno99

Junior Member
SteelBird said:
I read recently India is to purchase 33 Russia jets. 21 MiG-29 and 12 Su-30 MKI. I feel bit strange; since India has started to shift to western aircraft like the F-20, F/A-18 and Rafale, why does it still want to buy Russian jets? Further, how come it takes so long for the 36 Rafale to be delivered? News suggests that all 36 jets will be delivered in April 2022.

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Dassault (maker of Rafale) production workers are members of trade union. The trade union set the production rate of 1 plane a month. The workers want to keep their jobs long as possible. That's why the production is painfully slow.
 
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Pmichael

Junior Member
Dassault can and it has increased the production rate of the Rafale several times already. Buying Russian has a more geopolitical component than actual technical and military reasons.
 
O

ougoah

Brigadier
Registered Member
Pmichael said:
Dassault can and it has increased the production rate of the Rafale several times already. Buying Russian has a more geopolitical component than actual technical and military reasons.
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Sure they can increase. Will they increase production for India because it asks nicely? Will Dassault workers comply? Will Dassault find it in its interest to speed up delivery?

Even if all that is so, it will take years to become useful and even more years for all the units to reach IAF service. And all this is talking like Rafale is some sort of wonder weapon game changer for India. It's a 1990s designed fighter with tech from the 2000s. Sure it's better than most 3rd and 4th gen PLAAF fighters but PLAAF also has 4.5s like J-10C and J-16 to meet Rafales. Difference is PLAAF has hundreds more of each and even better supporting assets. Each Meteor missile purchased by India is going to be felt by its wallet. That's the kind of economic damage no PLAAF asset can do to India lol.
 
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Pmichael

Junior Member
Of course, it would be quite the turn of events if workers refuse to work on an export order which also help to stretch the domestic orders - result being a longer total production run.

It's correct that one or two squadrons of this or that will not fundamentally change the power dynamics. But it shows us about India's approach of gaining Russia as geopolitical partner in the region.
 
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EtherealSmoke

New Member
Registered Member
Is it me, or would Beijing not be quite happy at Indian purchases of Russian weaponry?

In today’s Cold War context, a deeper Indian-Russian relationship seems quite convenient for Chinese political interests. India selects Russian equipment over their American/Western counterparts, furthering the Indian-Russian relationship at western expense. Better for China to have India reliant on Russia than on America or the Quad. Certainly helps in pulling India away from a purely America-centric foreign policy.

The border conflict and a closer India-Russia relationship also doesn’t seem like it’s hurt in spurring India to work within non-Western contexts. As we’ve seen, the Indian and Chinese foreign ministers recently met for talks under the RIC format.

Honestly, I wouldn’t be surprised if Beijing and Moscow were more coordinated than perceived. An India pre-Ladakh that seemed to be marching directly into the American camp is now once again best friends with Russia. Seems a win for both Russia and China here.
 
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supersnoop

Major
Registered Member
Su-30MKI was a planned purchase for quite some time. IAF has lost 6 to accidents, so this is just to replace those basically.
 
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