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Bhurki

Junior Member
Registered Member
One feels what one feels as far as self importance goes. I don't exactly represent the Indian intentions related to use of Huawei as its main network infra provider. I formed my views as a result of Indo china relations and atmosphere as its been in the recent past. I agree affordable electronics from china have actually helped indian market jump a generation of consumer electronics without any significant investment in their domestic manufacturing, but the sentiments are rather off putting to assume open arm embrace for next gen tech.
That news reference was to highlight the internet penetration.
We've been OT for long now.
 
SteelBird

SteelBird

Colonel
Looks like India's ambition to join the club of lunar soft landing has failed. Maybe India needs to prepare more for such ambition. However, I find that Modi's tweet is much nicer to read than Trump's. Its sound more like what a leader should say.
India's historic landing on moon's polar surface may have failed
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(CNN)India's historic attempt to soft land a rover on the moon may have ended in failure moments before landing and scientists scrambled to analyze the final communication from Chandrayaan-2.

"Vikram lander descent was as planned and normal performance was observed till the altitude of 2.1 km. Subsequently the communication from the lander to ground station was lost. The data is being analyzed," said K. Sivan, chairman of the Indian Space Research Organisation, the country's equivalent of NASA.
The control room in the city of Bengaluru filled with scientists underwent a visible change as updates from the lander faded. The crowd had celebrated every small step during the controlled descent and at 1:55 a.m. local time on Saturday (4:25 p.m. ET Friday), the moment the landing was expected to take place, silence descended.
"In life, there are ups and downs. The country is proud of you. And all your hard work has taught us something ... Hope for the best ... You have served the country well and served science and humanity well," said Prime Minister Narendra Modi after the announcement.
Later, Modi tweeted: "We remain hopeful and will continue working hard on our space programme." He was scheduled to address the nation later Saturday.

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S

Skywatcher

Captain
That's a shame.

Maybe they should have tried landing on a less challenging area of the Moon first? I've heard that a polar landing is harder to conduct.
 
M

maint1234

New Member
Registered Member
Skywatcher said:
That's a shame.

Maybe they should have tried landing on a less challenging area of the Moon first? I've heard that a polar landing is harder to conduct.
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Might still have failed. Last week, before the landing, I tried to find what real tests were carried out of the lander, to replicate the landing on moons surface.
They used a helium Balloon - to replicate one sixth gravity and dropped the lander(maybe a test prototype) from a helicopter. And the testing was done just for a few months, after changing the lander design at the last moment.
As a engineer who has extensive control experience, from the mechanical side, on controlling high inertia and high speed equipment, I had a lot of doubts. Its very difficult to control a mechanical item, especially if its unbalanced, purely by electronics. It requires a lot of PID control tuning, quite a few months and real time testing to get replicable results.
Good example is the Boeing 737 max, which is a mechanically unstable plane, being stabilized by a software solution. Works for light weight fighter jets not for passenger jets.
Unless you are very lucky or have adequate handholding from experienced teams, this is a very tricky maneuver for solely simulation.
Over confidence in software solutions, as opposed to real testing resulted in this failure.
Dr Siva, isro head might be a good propulsion engineer but sometimes a SOB is required as a project coordinator, to ensure that inspite of all pressures to launch, only technical considerations are taken into account. Very difficult I can say from experience.
 
O

ougoah

Brigadier
Registered Member
maint1234 said:
Might still have failed. Last week, before the landing, I tried to find what real tests were carried out of the lander, to replicate the landing on moons surface.
They used a helium Balloon - to replicate one sixth gravity and dropped the lander(maybe a test prototype) from a helicopter. And the testing was done just for a few months, after changing the lander design at the last moment.
As a engineer who has extensive control experience, from the mechanical side, on controlling high inertia and high speed equipment, I had a lot of doubts. Its very difficult to control a mechanical item, especially if its unbalanced, purely by electronics. It requires a lot of PID control tuning, quite a few months and real time testing to get replicable results.
Good example is the Boeing 737 max, which is a mechanically unstable plane, being stabilized by a software solution. Works for light weight fighter jets not for passenger jets.
Unless you are very lucky or have adequate handholding from experienced teams, this is a very tricky maneuver for solely simulation.
Over confidence in software solutions, as opposed to real testing resulted in this failure.
Dr Siva, isro head might be a good propulsion engineer but sometimes a SOB is required as a project coordinator, to ensure that inspite of all pressures to launch, only technical considerations are taken into account. Very difficult I can say from experience.
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Have you noticed few if any Chinese trolling online and here? Contrast this against supposed Chinese space failure like Yutu 1's hibernation and temporary loss of comm with Indian trolling and celebration of actual failures in Chinese space projects. Same with crashes. Indians laugh at Chinese loss of life while Chinese say RIP to fallen Indian pilots.

Check out Indian comments in one example;


Just wanted to know your thoughts on that.
 
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maint1234

New Member
Registered Member
ougoah said:
Have you noticed few if any Chinese trolling online and here? Contrast this against supposed Chinese space failure like Yutu 1's hibernation and temporary loss of comm with Indian trolling and celebration of actual failures in Chinese space projects. Same with crashes. Indians laugh at Chinese loss of life while Chinese say RIP to fallen Indian pilots.

Just wanted to know your thoughts on that.
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Go to chandrayaan pdf thread and then tell me how great the Chinese are ?
Last week China lost a more expensive communication satellite during launch than this lander, didn't see many Indians commenting on it.
This site is full of unmoderated anti Indian content, so let's not play innocent.
 
O

ougoah

Brigadier
Registered Member
maint1234 said:
Go to chandrayaan pdf thread and then tell me how great the Chinese are ?
Last week China lost a more expensive communication satellite during launch than this lander, didn't see many Indians commenting on it.
This site is full of unmoderated anti Indian content, so let's not play innocent.
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Lol there is one Chinese troll on PDF trolling Indians. Don't forget his trolling is because of incessant Indian trolling for the last 5 years. I see no one trolling apart from that guy. Unless you're confusing Pakistanis with Chinese you are talking nonsense.

I have never seen Chinese trolling of Indians before Indians started with this cycle years ago. So while that one Chinese PDF troll is indeed a negative example, we can understand where he is coming from. The youtube vid I linked in from years ago. Find me an example of PDF trolling that predates it. Just one example.

Also 055's comments on PDF are not even in the same racist ballpark as nationalistic Indians. At least he's not using slurs and making utterly stupid comments. Most of the things he's saying are relatively accurate if harsh.
 
M

maint1234

New Member
Registered Member
ougoah said:
Lol there is one Chinese troll on PDF trolling Indians. Don't forget his trolling is because of incessant Indian trolling for the last 5 years. I see no one trolling apart from that guy. Unless you're confusing Pakistanis with Chinese you are talking nonsense.

I have never seen Chinese trolling of Indians before Indians started with this cycle years ago. So while that one Chinese PDF troll is indeed a negative example, we can understand where he is coming from. The youtube vid I linked in from years ago. Find me an example of PDF trolling that predates it. Just one example.

Also 055's comments on PDF are not even in the same racist ballpark as nationalistic Indians. At least he's not using slurs and making utterly stupid comments. Most of the things he's saying are relatively accurate if harsh.
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This is just off topic upstaging stuff . I am going to remove my previous reply to your post. And also this post.
 
O

ougoah

Brigadier
Registered Member
maint1234 said:
This is just off topic upstaging stuff . I am going to remove my previous reply to your post. And also this post.
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This troll talk is indeed off topic because I suppose you don't agree with my initial observation. Or you cannot admit it is true. I just wanted to know your thoughts since you are decent enough to come to this forum, suggesting a willingness to look at other perspectives at the very least. But since you have, you would also have noticed what I mentioned. Another example is take a look at this thread and compare its content and quality to that of DFI's China thread... ouch. Some sick bastards dwell in that dark pit over there that's for sure.

I don't know where all the negativity came from. Maybe it's from the 60s, exacerbated by more recent instability. Maybe Indian nationalists like conflating Pakistanis with Chinese. I don't know. Sure enough I can admit Indians receive their share of sinister comments from Pakistanis and Brits and white nationalists. Still I don't see why we're so disproportionately hated by Indians, especially now considering there are a clear absence of anti-India trolling done by Chinese in light of an Indian failure. Failure is normal. ISRO attempted something extraordinarily difficult and tried for a polar landing too. We do not want to make "made in India" comments or tease others with racial slurs. If more Indians can remember this, perhaps the next Chinese failure will not have hordes of trolls attacking an already sorry situation.
 
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