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Jeff Head

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
aksha said:
well , there's little they can do,

the western fleet needs these sonars more than the eastern fleet.

after all its the western fleet that operates an aircraft carrier.
and the talwars are the main ASW assets of the western fleet.

the Kamortas will be operated by the Eastern fleet, which has no CBG to protect..

which is why the minister said these corvettes will get these sonars by the time Vikrant enters service.

it is likely that the Kolkatas and the remaining 3 Talwars will get these sonars before the Kamortas.

the shivaliks and the kamortas will get the ATAS by the time Vikrant is commisioned.
currently the ATAS is needed most by the western fleet, and to the western fleet they will go first.

remember the western fleet is still the sword arm of the indian navy, (until the eastern fleet starts receiving the Vikrant, P17A frigates,P15B destroyers)
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Oh, I guess I thought they might split these Kamortas up between the fleets.

If they have no ATAS for the escorts of the two other carriers, and no Kamorta will be escorting those...then it is understandable why they would allocate them as they do.

My point was really beyond that however. The logistics and procurement of such devices should have taken that all into account before hand.

IOW, the devices should have been procured for the vessels escorting the carriers so that they were on hand when the Vikramaditya was commissioned herself, and coming in time for the commissioning of these vessels when they were outfitted.

That takes serious planning and the IN is still in need of developing that level of planning in my opinion.

The current way works, I suppose, so long as there is no emergency requiring them to be there when they are outfitted. But such emergencies do arise...and your military is not the place you want to be caught short.
 
A

aksha

Captain
Jeff Head said:
Oh, I guess I thought they might split these Kamortas up between the fleets.

If they have no ATAS for the escorts of the two other carriers, and no Kamorta will be escorting those...then it is understandable why they would allocate them as they do.

My point was really beyond that however. The logistics and procurement of such devices should have taken that all into account before hand.

IOW, the devices should have been procured for the vessels escorting the carriers so that they were on hand when the Vikramaditya was commissioned herself, and coming in time for the commissioning of these vessels when they were outfitted.

That takes serious planning and the IN is still in need of developing that level of planning in my opinion.

The current way works, I suppose, so long as there is no emergency requiring them to be there when they are outfitted. But such emergencies do arise...and your military is not the place you want to be caught short.
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its unfair to blame the Navy alone for this,

they had selected Atlas at the time of defexpo2014.
but some one alleged corruption in the deal, and our previous defence minister decided to sit on the deal

the deal was cleared almost a year later when the new government came to power.


and before the Atlas ATAS was selected they gave quite a long run to DRDO's Nagen ATAS. hoping that like the HUMSA hull sonar, that they will get things correct, but unfortunately not.

very few people know/remember that that CSL was starved of funds by the defence ministry, for the construction of the Vikrant for almost half a year, something which was rectified only when the new government came to power.


besides they still have the hull besed sonar, which though not half as effective as the the ATAS , the ship is not sitting ducks.

i hope the Kamortas will be the first to get the new ASW helicopters.
dunking sonar of ASW helicopters operating close to the ship can negate the lack of ATAS to some extent.
 
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aksha

Captain
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After being postponed twice, two indigenously developed beyond visual range air-to-air missiles, Astra, were successfully launched from Su-30 MKI fighter jet in two developmental trials conducted at the Integrated Test Range, Chandipur, Odisha on Wednesday.

In the first trial, the supersonic missile was released when the fighter jet was performing a “very high-g manoeuvre.” In the second trial, the g manoeuvre was higher than in the first exercise.

A Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) missile technologist told The Hindu that extreme conditions were simulated for the missile’s launch in both trials when it was released at very low and very high altitudes. DRDO scientists plan to conduct another trial on Thursday to prove the long range capability of the missile.

With Wednesday’s tests, seven developmental trials were conducted and the missile is expected to be inducted by 2016 after a few more tests. The 3.8-metre tall Astra is a radar homing missile and one of the smallest weapon systems developed by the DRDO.
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After postponing twice, the indigenously-developed beyond visual range air-to-air missile, Astra was successfully launched from Su-30 MKI fighter jet in two developmental trials conducted at the Integrated Test Range, Chandipur, Odisha on Wednesday.

In the first trial, the supersonic missile was released when the fighter jet was performing a “very high-g manoeuvre”. In the second trial, the manoeuvre was higher than in the first exercise.

A Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) missile technologist told The Hindu that extreme conditions were simulated for the missile’s launch in both the trials when it was released at very low and very high altitudes. DRDO scientists plan to conduct another trial on Thursday to prove the long range capability of the missile.

With Wednesday’s tests, seven developmental trials were conducted and the missile is expected to be inducted by 2016 after few more tests, including pre-induction trials.

Once inducted, India would join select group of nations which possess this kind of stat-of-the-art weapon, said the scientist. He said it is the first state-of-the-art air-to-air missile developed and validated by DRDO. “It is one of the most modern, stand-off beyond visual range air-to-air missiles (BVRAAM)”, he added.

The 3.8-metre tall Astra is a radar homing missile and one of the smallest weapon systems developed by DRDO.

Various laboratories of the DRDO, including the missile complex at Hyderabad, CEMILAC and DGAQA collaborated with Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) and the Indian Air Force in developing Astra.
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aksha

Captain
ASLESHA
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ASLESHA, a versatile 3D Low Level Light Weight surveillance Radar is another star in the constellation of indigenous Radars. Designed to serve in diverse terrains like plains, deserts, mountains and high altitude regions, for detecting and tracking targets such as UAVs, helicopters and aircrafts at low and medium altitudes, ASLESHA can scan the valley with innovative electronically steerable multi-beam technology.

Its high-speed digital technologies provide 3D air space awareness in terms of range, azimuth and elevation, with high accuracy, resolution, reliability and IFF (Identification of Friend or Foe) capability.

Innovatively engineered in multiple packages, ASLESHA can be transported by vehicles, group of men or as an under-slung carriage by a helicopter. The radar can be easily deployed or decamped in minutes allowing easy relocation. The design allows ASLESHA to be remotely operated by means of its commander display unit kept even a kilometre away from the main unit.
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Jeff Head

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
aksha said:
its unfair to blame the Navy alone for this...
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Well, call it the Navy, the Indian Military, or whomever.

It is best, when launching a vessel, to then outfit it with its systems so that when the vessel is commissioned, it meets the requirements for which it was designed.

There are always reasons and excuses...and some of them may be well understandable.

But there have been several instances of this and with various different classes which would indicate that the issue is not necessarily related to this or that specific set back...but more endemic.

As it is, as you say with thier huill mounted sonar they are not wholly defenseless...but that is also the point. These vessels are meant to hunt subs...not to just be able to defend themselves locally against them.

I hope one day this issue is resolved because I do believe that these vessels, when fully outfitted with their hull mounted sonar arrays, with a modern ATAS, and with very good ASW helicopters who themselves have the latest sensors, that these vessels will be very good ASW vessels.
 
A

aksha

Captain
IAF jet lands successfully on Yamuna expressway

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The IAF has been considering the use of national highways for emergency landing by fighter aircraft.

This capability was demonstrated by IAF on May 21, 2015 by a Mirage-2000 aircraft which got airborne from one of the IAF bases in Central India. All facilities like make shift Air Traffic Control, safety services, rescue vehicles, bird clearance parties and other requirements were set up by IAF personnel from Air Force Station Agra. Thereafter, in coordination with the District Magistrate and SP of Agra and Mathura, necessary tie up was carried out for activation of the selected stretch. The aircraft made a practice approach on the highway, coming down to a height of 100 mtrs before landing off the next approach. The operations were conducted with active support from the government of Uttar Pradesh, Yamuna Expressway Authority, Toll authorities of JP Infratech and Civil Police.

The IAF has plans to activate more such stretches on highways in the future.

SSB/MKS
(Release ID :121896)
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aksha

Captain
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it won't be long before the Tjas gets equipped with these BVR AAM's , closely followed by the Mig 29k's

In yet another achievement in two days, the indigenously developed air-to-air supersonic Astra, was successfully fired from Su-30 MKI fighter aircraft and tested for a very long range at the Integrated Test Range, in Odisha on Thursday.

On Wednesday, two Astra missiles were launched when the fighter aircraft was performing high-g manoeuvres in two separate trials.

According to a Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) missile technologist associated with Astra project, the anti-aircraft missile on Thursday climbed to an altitude of 25 k.m. and went to a very long range after it was released at an altitude of 25 k.m. He said that the weapon system was evaluated under extreme conditions.

The control and guidance and all other sub-systems were validated at very high altitude and range as the missile zoomed at a speed of 4.5 Mach in the eighth developmental trial held on Thursday. After a few more pre-induction trials, the supersonic missile is expected to be inducted by next year.

The 3.8 metre tall Astra can carry a warhead weighing 15 kg and intercept and destroy enemy aircraft at supersonic speeds in head-on and tail chase modes. It possesses high Single Shot Kill Probability (SSKP) and can be launched from different altitudes.
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thunderchief

thunderchief

Senior Member
kwaigonegin said:
Singapore and Sweden are experts in using their public highways for military contigencies and purposes.
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Idea was very match in vogue during Cold War , because it was expected than in case of Hot War most of major airbases would be knocked out with nuclear strikes early in conflict .

But in practical terms, it is not very practical :D Fighters could land there only in fair weather during the day . There is no ILS and usually no lights to help landing in dark . Chances of FOD are greater then on regular runways , and maintenance facilities are bare minimum . Also, maximum take-off weight is reduced .
 
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