India up MRCA order to 200

FriedRiceNSpice said:

It is good that the Indians will be acquiring something that is in the same league as the J-10. This fighter will no doubt augment Indian air defense capabilities greatly.

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Like the 190 MKI's aren't enough. Anyway, I wonder how much the total cost would be (cost of fighters, weapons, spares, training, maintainence, etc.) That would be quite a large amount for any country (except the US). It would be best if the IAF bought both the Mirage MK2 and the Mig-35. The IAF could also then convert all of their Mig-29's to the Mig-35 capabality. Not only would it decrease the types of aircraft in the IAF, but having MKI's, Mig-35's, and MK2's can really be a force multiplier (and don't forget those AWACs the IAF will have by 2008). And since the IAF already knows how to operate the MK2 and the Mig series, training would really be no problem. I hope the IAF doesn't buy those Hornets.

As for what the PAF will do, in my opinion, the PAF really has nothing to worry about. Most of the IAF's aircraft will be delivered around 2015 and it will take time for the IAF's aircraft to be integrated (as for the MKI, I think all 190 will be delivered by 2018?). By 2015, I expect both the IAF and PAF to be extremely well equipped air forces. Let's just hope neither side decides to use them, though.

crazyinsane105 said:

Like the 190 MKI's aren't enough. Anyway, I wonder how much the total cost would be (cost of fighters, weapons, spares, training, maintainence, etc.) That would be quite a large amount for any country (except the US). It would be best if the IAF bought both the Mirage MK2 and the Mig-35. The IAF could also then convert all of their Mig-29's to the Mig-35 capabality. Not only would it decrease the types of aircraft in the IAF, but having MKI's, Mig-35's, and MK2's can really be a force multiplier (and don't forget those AWACs the IAF will have by 2008). And since the IAF already knows how to operate the MK2 and the Mig series, training would really be no problem. I hope the IAF doesn't buy those Hornets.

As for what the PAF will do, in my opinion, the PAF really has nothing to worry about. Most of the IAF's aircraft will be delivered around 2015 and it will take time for the IAF's aircraft to be integrated (as for the MKI, I think all 190 will be delivered by 2018?). By 2015, I expect both the IAF and PAF to be extremely well equipped air forces. Let's just hope neither side decides to use them, though.

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I think IAF probably had to do this, because it realizes how slow the induction process can be. We know that the MRCAs won't start coming in until 2010/2011, so it will have quite a void between 2007-2010. The extra MRCA total probably ensures that a large bunch would produced overseas, so that would mean faster delivery of the MRCAs.

Anyhow, how many MKIs does India have right now? 50? I heard IAF asked the production rate to be increased from 8 to 12 a year. By my calculation, that would take another 12 years to produce the remaining 140 MKIs, so that means 2017 will be the year it finishes with it.

As for the well equipped part, it would be well equipped by today's standard, but 2015 would be a different ball game. The Europeans would be full of upgraded Typhoons and Rafales and possibly JSFs. The Korean and Japanese and even the Malaysians and Singapore AF would have the latest Eagles and super hornets. If JSF doesn't get cut, they probably will all be flying JSFs. The poorer countries will probably be getting Gripens and Chinese planes.

Russian aircraft have a bad rep for being maintenance intensive. The IAF's early experience with the MiG-29 wasn't that great, though situation has improved since.

The benefit of buying Russian, or French aircraft is that the suppliers are more likely to sell you large piles of spares and munitions. French aircraft cost more, but they can usually deliver both aircraft and containers full of spares on time. Libya was under UN sanction for decades, yet their Mirages are still flying because of the large piles of spare parts that France sold them. Russian aircraft tend to cost less than French ones, but on-time delivery of spares is sometimes iffy.

If Indian purchase US made aircraft, each time Indian wants to purchase additional aircraft and munitions, it has to clear the US Congress. The US is also well known for NOT selling large piles of advanced munitions and spare parts to non-NATO nations. So imagine if India opt to buy 120 F/A-18, then a situation with Pakistan develops and the Indian government decides to do an underground nuclear test. The US might embargo military exports to India for a few years and the IAF would be faced with parts shortage, like Venezuela today.

There's another alternative - JAS-39 C/D. The aircraft can use EU, US, & South African munitions. The JAS-39 is known to be cost-effective with possible leasing agreement with Sweden. :




So if the US refuse to sell AIM-120's...

The R-Darter is now in service on SAAF Cheetah Cs and will be integrated on South Africa’s Gripens when they enter service. One important factor driving the declassification of the R-Darter (and by extension the Derby) was the decision by Gripen international to offer the R-Darter as a weapons option on the Gripen. As the Gripen team has also struck up a very close relationship with Rafael ­ offering the Python 4 and SPICE stand-off weapon on the aircraft ­ it is not entirely inconceivable that the Derby is for sale to export customers also.

Adeptius, I am not sure if Sweden is going to sell the Gripen to either Pakistan or India. If Gripen was an option, than Pakistan would be pursuing the Gripen rather than the F-16. The Gripen is better than the F-16 because it can operate various munitions from different countries. However, Sweden did deny the Gripen to Pakistan and I doubt they will give special treatment to India.

Mod edit: You dont have to quete somebody if nobody havent posted between you two...

well, the gripen lost to the f-16 in dubai. but as for potential, the gripen is a much newer fighter than the f-16. besides, pakistan would more immune to an arms embargo.

Which version of F-16 beat Gripen C/D? Do you have an article on this? I personally think that Gripen should never be mentionned with Rafale and EF-2000, but it can be pretty good if it gets python 4 and the Meteor.

tphuang said:

Which version of F-16 beat Gripen C/D? Do you have an article on this? I personally think that Gripen should never be mentionned with Rafale and EF-2000, but it can be pretty good if it gets python 4 and the Meteor.

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the f-16 e/f block 60 desert falcon. pretty advanced bird. also pretty expensive. not even the usaf operates em.




some treats...
a photo library of the clearest, closest pics of an f-16 e/f block 60 youll ever see

MIGleader said:

the f-16 e/f block 60 desert falcon. pretty advanced bird. also pretty expensive. not even the usaf operates em.

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some treats...
a photo library of the clearest, closest pics of an f-16 e/f block 60 youll ever see

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well, that's not a surprise at all then.

I don't think anyone would expect Gripen to be able to beat block 60. I thought Gripen lost to 50+, that would've been some serious news.