India incursion and Chinese standoff at Dolam, Bhutan

Jura said:

does this view (from the vid you posted):
fit into your imagination of like clean, high tech operations you concocted
#257 Hendrik_2000, Saturday at 9:56 PM
?

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AndrewS said:

Yes, India has troops in Bhutan, but I severely doubt India will sponsor a coup/invasion against the King and the democratically elected parliament in Bhutan.

There are too many drawbacks to such a situation, particularly since China will automatically oppose India. And everyone in the world would side with China over India because:.

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discspinner said:

Oh it certainly won't be clean if we come to a major border war.

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discspinner said:

There will be thousands of KIA/wounded, 10x that on the Indian side. ...

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Jura said:

I guess it depends on how big force you would need; I figured the tactical situation on the other side was something like this (I posted the designations of the three Indian Brigades, X, previously here, won't bother with looking for that post):

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Jura said:

does this view (from the vid you posted):

fit into your imagination of like clean, high tech operations you concocted
#257 Hendrik_2000, Saturday at 9:56 PM
?

Click to expand...

plawolf said:

You mean like how the west lined up to condemn India when they annexed Sikkim?

Or how the west is standing up to Saudi excesses and the humanitarian catastrophe they are creating in Yemen?

Never underestimate the hypocrisy and bias of the west.

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AndrewS said:

China woos Bhutan with $10 billion in standoff with India

Beijing seen driving wedge in New Delhi-Thimphu alliance
YUJI KURONUMA, Nikkei staff writer

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NEW DELHI -- Locked in a two-month border standoff with India and tiny Bhutan in the Himalayas, China is offering its little neighbor $10 billion in economic assistance to soften its stance.

Sources say that since the offer, Bhutan has toned down its allegations that China is violating its territorial claims.

The development complicates Bhutan's relations with India, which blocked Chinese troops after Bhutan, -- a long-time security ally of India's -- notified New Delhi that the troops were attempting to construct a road in a part of the Doklam Plateau claimed by both China and Bhutan.

India and China have accused each other of violating the border, with troops from both countries in a face-off since June. Winning over Bhutan would lend more credence to their claims, and it appears Beijing's overture is having the desired effect. Speaking to Indian reporters earlier this month, a Chinese diplomat said that Bhutan clearly acknowledged to Beijing that the area where Indian troops entered is not part of Bhutan.

If the claim is correct, it would signal a weakening of ties between India and Bhutan.

Although a Bhutanese government official immediately issued a denial to Indian media, New Delhi remains unconvinced. A government source told the Nikkei early this month that China's $10 billion package -- which includes a grant, low-interest loans and direct investment -- is tempting Bhutan.

When External Affairs Minister Sushma Swaraj met with her Bhutanese counterpart, Damcho Dorji, on Aug. 11 on the sidelines of a regional meeting, she told Dorji not to be betrayed by China, asking further that Bhutan retain its alliance with India. Dorji, however, only said that he hoped the standoff would be resolved peacefully and amicably, refraining from any comment that would provoke China.

In June, Bhutan's foreign ministry blasted China, saying that the construction work violates an agreement between the two countries.

The Chinese government-backed tabloid Global Times later ran an editorial referencing Dorji's comment and stating that Bhutan clearly wants to maintain neutral in its criticism of India.

China is wooing Bhutan in order to validate its presence in Doklam. India sent troops only after Bhutan claimed that China had started construction work in Bhutanese territory. Beijing hopes Bhutan will relinquish its claim to the disputed area, thereby obviating the need for Indian troops, which would then be violating Chinese territory.

According to Indian government sources, China and India informally agreed to simultaneously reduce troop deployments in phases, aiming for a complete withdrawal between September and October, or at least by year-end.

Both Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi and Chinese President Xi Jinping need to save face, hence the simultaneous draw down. But tensions remain, with Chinese and Indian soldiers throwing stones at each other in Kashmir.

According to an Indian government source, there are about 320 Indian and 500 Chinese troops in the area, with the numbers declining. But behind them stand 12,000 Indian soldiers and a 16,000-strong Chinese contingent, raising concerns that if shooting starts, it could quickly grow into a major conflict.

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Hendrik_2000 said:

SH1 Wheeled self-propelled howitzer 155mm

Description
Armament
Mounted at the rear of the SH1 is the complete upper part of the 155-mm / L5 towed artillery system. It is compatible with all standard 155-mm NATO ammunition, as well as ammunition developed by NORINCO. Before opening fire, a large spade is lowered to the ground at the rear of the chassis to provide a more stable firing platform. In road position, the gun is held in a travel lock. The 155mm howitzer of SH1 can fire a full range of ammunition as Extended-Range, Full-Bore, Rocket-Assisted, High-Explosive (ERFB-RA/HE) and Extended-Range Full-Bore, Base-Bleed, High-Explosive (ERFB-BB/HE). When using the ERFB-BB/HE round, the howitzer can reach a maximum range of 53km. The howitzer can also fire the 155mm semi-active laser-guided projectile developed by NORINCO based on the Russian Instrument Design Bureau (KBP) 152mm Krasnopol projectile. The howitzer barrel is electric-operated, with an elevation from 0 - 70 degrees and a traverse of 20°. For its self-defence and anti-aicraft, the secondary armament consists of a 12.7 QJC88 anti-aircraft mm machine gun mounted to the right side on the top of the crew compartment.
Design and protection
The SH1 is equipped with an armour cabin mounted at the front of the vehicle. The cab is of welded steel armour and provides protection from small arms fire up to 7.62 mm in calibre and shell splinters.
Propulsion
The SH1 is based on a WS5252 6 × 6 cross-country truck which is designed and manufactured by Wanshan Special Vehicle Chinese Company.
Accessories
The SH1 is equipped with a computerised fire-control system, with a muzzle velocity sensor which feed the data directly to the fire-control computer. The artillery system is equipped with navigation, positioning, targeting, and communications systems, all of which adopt the modular design for easy maintenance and upgrade. The onboard communication system enables the artillery system to be connected into the C4ISR network of an artillery company or battalion for information sharing and automated command and control.

Specifications

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Armament

One 155mm howitzer and one 12.7mm machine
gun.
Country users
Pakistan, Myanmar
Designer Country
China
Accessories
Computerised fire control system, navigation system, communication systems, C4ISR network
Crew
5 soldiers
Armor
Protection against small arms firing and shell splinters.
Weight
22,500 kg
Speed
90 km/h maximum road speed
Range
600 km
a
Dimensions
Length, 9.68 m; Width, 2.58 m; Height, 3.50 m

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Hendrik_2000 said:

I don't see how it contradict with my position Digging a trench could be defensive posture of holding the ground. I am not talking about taking the ground using ground force that is what the debate is all about

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