If Taiwan acquires the Tichonderoga cruiser

If Taiwan acquires the Ticonderoga cruiser

I have read an article that that talks about the seperatist leaders in Taiwan, particularly CSB, have wanted to have the Ticonderoga cruiser for a long time. It would be the ideal ship for them to purchase, because of its AEGIS system, and because it is very unlikely that the US would sell the more advanced Arleigh Burke destroyer.

Although there is only a small chance that Taiwan would get these ships, I think the PLAN should have a backup plan in case the ROCN does obtain them. Ticonderoga cruisers could significantly boost Taiwan's naval power, and put heavy pressure on the PLAN. Having 4 Ticonderogas would be the same as having 8 to 10 Kidd-class destroyers. Older ships in PLAN's inventory, like the 051, would be no match for ships like the Ticonderoga, but more modern ships like the Sovremenny, 051C and 052C stand a pretty good chance in combat.

I think one advantage that the mainland has over the Taiwan is that its production capability is way higher. Although PLAN only has a small fleet of advanced ships like the 052C and 054A, they could make a lot more if they were faced with a serious threat.

What do you guys think?

I doubt the US would sell ant Tico's to the ROC for fear the ships would fall into the hands of the PRC if re-unification ever does take place.

But if the did get one or two would the US sell the ROC the full package that a Tico can carry? Would the Aegis system be fully operational or limited. No my friend I doubt that US would ever sell one to the ROC.

The USN recently sank a Tico class ship, the ex-USS Valley Forge (CG-50), in a SINKEX excersise.



The three remaining Ticos that have been decomissioned were not updated with MK41 VLS and other systems and that is the reason given by the USN for their decomissioning.

CG's ,47,48 & 49 have all been striken from the Navy list and are awaiting disposal of some method. None are scheduled to be sold to another nation.

Agreed, if the US wouldn't sell Taiwan the Aegis equipped Burkes in 2001, then I don't see why they would sell them an equally well equipped ship today.

Taiwan will not be getting any Ticonderoga's or Arleigh Burke's in their inventory. Nor will they be getting any derivatives of them like Japan's Kongo DDG.

Taiwan's got plenty of capability with the Kidd DDG (NTU), and other platforms. A Ticonderoga, even the older ones would be way overkill for their purposes and doctrine.

BTW, Ticonderoga's (VLS equipped versions) actually have much more in terms of command and control facilities and overall warfighting abilities than Arleigh Burkes. Not the other way around. Although the Oscar Austin versions come very close.

The ROC Navy had just reveived 4 Kidd-class DDG's, it's highly doubtful that they'd order new ships immediately. We must also consider ROC's military budget is quite limited comparred to PRC.

Rather than spending billions on more surface combatants, I think it'd make more sense to upgrade existing ones. For example on the Kidd-class DDG's, they're still using the old Mk26 twin-arm launcher and mk 112 match-box ASROC launcher. These could be upgraded like the Ticonderoga class, replacing them with Mk 41 VLS, along with updated sensors and C&C.

The same can prolly be done to the Cheng Kung (Perry) class FFG, replacing the Mk 13 singe-arm launcher with VLS cels and upgrading the SM-1 with SM-2. For the Knox and Ka Fayette class, they're weak in AAW, so you could prolly upgrade them with RIM-116 RAM launchers.

Also, rather than importing 20-30+ year old ships from the USN surplus stock, ROCN should follow Cheng Kung class example and BUILD their own ships. The US is far more likely to license or export subsystems than whole ships, and systems like the RM-116 is definately classified as a "defensive" weapon.

There were plans to install a limited version of AEGIS combat system on the last Cheng Kung class FFG "Tian Dan", but the project was scrapped due to cost. IMO they could look at the Noregian Navy's Fridtjof Nasen class FFG as a platform to emulate for future ships.

Re: If Taiwan acquires the Ticonderoga cruiser

F40Racer said:

I have read an article that that talks about the seperatist leaders in Taiwan, particularly CSB, have wanted to have the Ticonderoga cruiser for a long time......

What do you guys think?

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I think the article you read may be misleading. Taiwan has expressed much interest in acquiring an AEGIS-ship, but it has always been assumed that it would be a Burke-related platform. For one thing the Ticonderoga-class requires more manpower, and as Popeye said it's got a lot of gear the ROCN wouldn't want.

Maybe Taiwan hoped it could get a decommissioned TC "on the cheap", but I think the VLS types are going to stay in service for quite some time anyway. And even then the cost would still be significant - I'm not sure Taiwan would benefit from AEGIS ships as much as the cost would justify.

I know this is slightly off topic but is sinking a bunch of fairly modern ships (like 20 year old Tico´s) in maneuvers off the hawaiian coast really a good idea? Have US navy commanders no concern that the russians or chinese could glean a lot of useful information by monitoring these wargames by technical (satellites, recon planes, subs, sensors) or traditional (human sources) means?

Perhaps these maneuvers are more some kind of recreational ´turkey shoot´giving the chance for some soon retiring admirals for actually sinking a real warship with real missiles at least once in their long time of duty. Obviously the information given away by this type of ´show maneuver´would not be of any security concern (what do you think BD popeye about this?).

At least we know now that if PLAN starts sinking ships like Shenzhen (051), Qingdao or Harbin (052) in some future show maneuvers (perhaps in 5-7 years) the chinese admirals assume that also regarding state of the art wargames PLAN has eventually reached the level of the USN.:roll:

I know this is slightly off topic but is sinking a bunch of fairly modern ships (like 20 year old Tico´s) in maneuvers off the hawaiian coast really a good idea? Have US navy commanders no concern that the russians or chinese could glean a lot of useful information by monitoring these wargames by technical (satellites, recon planes, subs, sensors) or traditional (human sources) means?

Perhaps these maneuvers are more some kind of recreational ´turkey shoot´giving the chance for some soon retiring admirals for actually sinking a real warship with real missiles at least once in their long time of duty. Obviously the information given away by this type of ´show maneuver´would not be of any security concern (what do you think BD popeye about this?).

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These ships have been stripped of all useful material and warfighting technology before sinking.

The ships are not sunk as a "turkey shoot". Nope not true. The primary reasons are;

1)To expend aged ordanance.
2) To excersise warfighting systems.
3) It cost less to sink a warship than scrap one. Why? It cost the shipbreakers more in the US to cut up a warship than the money they would recieve from scrapping a warship. This is due to strict enviromental standards. Hence they are sunk. A handful are still sold.

I personally highly don't think the 4 Kidd DDG taiwan will help sea defence a lot in taiwan, those are mainly 4 big radar to share info with USN. One of my uncle actually served on a KIDD DDG. KIDD is just a export product. the couter measure and defensive weopan on the ship is just not important. my uncle told me if more than 4 anti-ship missle coming at them, the only hope is to pray to God. and the ship's own anti-ship missile is very slow to reload(not vertical lauchers). in a real war. i don't have a lot hope on KIDD DDG.

Violet Oboe said:

I know this is slightly off topic but is sinking a bunch of fairly modern ships (like 20 year old Tico´s) in maneuvers off the hawaiian coast really a good idea? Have US navy commanders no concern that the russians or chinese could glean a lot of useful information by monitoring these wargames by technical (satellites, recon planes, subs, sensors) or traditional (human sources) means?

Perhaps these maneuvers are more some kind of recreational ´turkey shoot´giving the chance for some soon retiring admirals for actually sinking a real warship with real missiles at least once in their long time of duty. Obviously the information given away by this type of ´show maneuver´would not be of any security concern (what do you think BD popeye about this?).

At least we know now that if PLAN starts sinking ships like Shenzhen (051), Qingdao or Harbin (052) in some future show maneuvers (perhaps in 5-7 years) the chinese admirals assume that also regarding state of the art wargames PLAN has eventually reached the level of the USN.:roll:

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Off the Hawaiian coast? Which ship? I wasn't aware of any recent naval vessels sunk off the coast of the Hawaiian Islands.