Ideal chinese carrier thread
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I don't think that LHAs are an alternative for the PLAN.
They want a carriers rather fast and are not willing to wait another decade, imo. Now the problem here is the airwing. The only possibly short term solution would be a Su-33 (derivative). And that's rather big. It's like operating F-15s from a Tarawa. It doesn't really make sense I belive. Even the J-10 is heavier than a Harrier. To navalize J7/J8 isn't worth the effort I think. And FC-1 are unlikely (because not wanted) either way. Means the L-15 left. I don't believe the PLAN will design and build a new LHA just for the use of light trainers.
And once again, I still believe that UA(C)Vs on chinese carriers are still decades off. Perhaps survilliance/AEW UAVs in ten to fifteen years.
So I think a full CV (Varyag) is of course the most likely and also the probably best possible solution here.
They want a carriers rather fast and are not willing to wait another decade, imo. Now the problem here is the airwing. The only possibly short term solution would be a Su-33 (derivative). And that's rather big. It's like operating F-15s from a Tarawa. It doesn't really make sense I belive. Even the J-10 is heavier than a Harrier. To navalize J7/J8 isn't worth the effort I think. And FC-1 are unlikely (because not wanted) either way. Means the L-15 left. I don't believe the PLAN will design and build a new LHA just for the use of light trainers.
And once again, I still believe that UA(C)Vs on chinese carriers are still decades off. Perhaps survilliance/AEW UAVs in ten to fifteen years.
So I think a full CV (Varyag) is of course the most likely and also the probably best possible solution here.
Here's my thoughts on how the PLAN's first carriers will look:
1st is a modified and enlarged Varyag design employing STOBAR (the red squares are VLS positions), a safe bet to follow Varyag into service;
Here is the same design fitted for CTOL/CATOBAR ops with three Catapults, although only two may be fitted (delete as appropriate);
Version three: enlarged slightly with a third deck edge lift to port aft;
And to complete the set, a smaller LPH/LHD of around 35,000tons, benefitting from commonality with the larger ships (propulsion, weapons etc). Can provide ASW screening for the CVs or act as amphibious ship.
1st is a modified and enlarged Varyag design employing STOBAR (the red squares are VLS positions), a safe bet to follow Varyag into service;
Here is the same design fitted for CTOL/CATOBAR ops with three Catapults, although only two may be fitted (delete as appropriate);
Version three: enlarged slightly with a third deck edge lift to port aft;
And to complete the set, a smaller LPH/LHD of around 35,000tons, benefitting from commonality with the larger ships (propulsion, weapons etc). Can provide ASW screening for the CVs or act as amphibious ship.
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and
in big parts I agree, crowl - walk - run, thats the best way; and my fice cents:
the next indegenious carrier will be a small amphibious carrier, Displacement: 20 to 30000 tons full load, Extreme Dimensions: 220 x 40,0 x 10,0 meters, angled deck, 1 or 2 catapulte, 2 aircraft lifts;
Propulsion CODOG, 50 to 60000 hp, 25 to 30 knts;
operating helos (transport and attack) and additional small training aircrafts (by catapult) which also - if necessary - can serve for lightweight attack role with minor modifications (like the L-15).
I don_t think, UAVs ar fit to compete in the next yrs; may be for surch - but not for destroy, so manned lightweight attack aircrafts and helos will be used in the first time.
I dont think, that Varjag will become more as an trainee-carrier to learn how to operate an avation ship; and every trainee-carrier also can be used for pilots training, so the Varjag will be the "chineese training carrier" to get carrier-qualification.
After that licence for pilots the next step will be the "lerning-by-doing"-job at new amphibious carriers, and after that time the best pilots could change to a new chinese build "big stick".... (in the future they may change directly from the trainee-carrier "ex Varjag", but the first yrs we will see the amphibious "LPH- and catapulte-design" as next step).
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Nice designs Obi Wan.
In actuality although I love the Cv with three catapults that would be to advanced for the PLAN at this point. If about 50 years ago they did have a Cv then a 3 cat CV would work for them now.
If your "upgraded Varyag" Cv was real that would be the most probale design for the PLAN right now.
Your ships look like a cross between a UK QE2 class CVF and the Varyag..Excellent drawings all....
In actuality although I love the Cv with three catapults that would be to advanced for the PLAN at this point. If about 50 years ago they did have a Cv then a 3 cat CV would work for them now. If your "upgraded Varyag" Cv was real that would be the most probale design for the PLAN right now.
Your ships look like a cross between a UK QE2 class CVF and the Varyag..Excellent drawings all....
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If we assume Varyag is the starting point then the designs I came up with represent a logical progression. Whilst there are some amazing and imaginative designs posted in this thread, the Stobar variant is probably closer to how the first indigenous PLAN CV may look. I made the LPH variant a smaller derivative of the design family, as this gives it the potential to be upgraded to STOBAR at a later date. It could serve as a test bed for a fully fledged CV variant (next two ships built), then after the bugs have been ironed out of the design they may move onto the CATOBAR variant and finally the three lift version. One possible avenue of development anyway...
Hey, Planeman. You said your landing strip is also a STOBAR take off right?
I think that might be a problem. Having it would help slow an aircraft down on a successful landing, but what if the plane flies too fast or is descending too slowly? It would have to power up and repeat.
My concern is, I can't imagine having to power up in that short space and avoid the new obstacle!
Anyway, starting new naval fighter design thread.
I think that might be a problem. Having it would help slow an aircraft down on a successful landing, but what if the plane flies too fast or is descending too slowly? It would have to power up and repeat.
My concern is, I can't imagine having to power up in that short space and avoid the new obstacle!
Anyway, starting new naval fighter design thread.
Really cool concept, but just one quick question:
Why would you put land attack or anti ship cruise missiles on your carrier? You would get more flexibility with just storing extra ALCMs for your aircraft.
If you try to pile to many "nice to have" weapon systems, you are using space that could have been used to support air ops
just my five cents
alwaysfresh
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I have never design anything, so I know this is going to get bashed. Used your idea of dual jumps. All I wanted to add was helicopter pads on the sides with ramps. Also I put the jumps going around and above the tower. I know I shouldn't add cause I don't have any experience but this looks like fun and it was fun.
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Pretty cool idea though a bit dangerous I'd expect given that the helicopters might suck personel and other non-attached items off the flight deck into their rotors.
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