History of South American nation inter-rivalry and arms buildup
- Thread starter Jeff Head
- Start date
Miragedriver
Brigadier
There are a lot of what ifs in that statement my friend. Many things could have happened. I was very sad when Argentina lost. However, it was the best thing that could have happened for both nations.
Imagine what the aftermath would have been like if the results where reversed. Britain defeated by a developing nation (at the time, now third worldish). That would have put the strength of NATO into question at the height of the Cold War with the Soviet Union and Warsaw Pact. At the time Britain’s Navy was second only to the United States in the western world.
Also a victorious and emboldened Argentina would not have wasted any time in resolving the Beagle Channel crisis once and for all with Chile. The world would have been a much more dangerous place.
One could even speculate that perhaps the Soviet Union would not have collapsed since the US and NATO would not have been so bold and spent them militarily into the ground.
Back to bottling my Grenache
Miragedriver
Brigadier
**off Topic**
Peru was very helpful indeed. They knew, and know, that if conflict were to break out between them and Chile, that Argentina would help them. The Argentine nation will always be grateful for Peru’s help.
However, Christina is loose cannon on deck. She will say what is politically expedient to satisfy the masses and then turn around a do the opposite. Remember to be weary of wily politicians who say one thing and do another.
**Back to Topic**
Back to bottling my Grenache
b787
Captain
well Mirage i think the Malvinas will return to Argentina eventually, everything depends in the strategic thinking, England was no match to the soviet Tu-22M and Su-24s naval force in 1982, Argentina just showed how weak was England in 1982. We lost because as Latin Americans we are not militaristic in nature, and we are still very linked to Spain-Italy-Portugal as our European origins thus Argentina in 1982 was loyal as a NATO honorary member despite Argentina never was a really a NATO member.
Argentina just needs time to allow the British empire to rotten further, no empire lasts forever, and the British is in total collapse, and i am sure Argentina with peaceful means will retake the Malvinas, because while we have young populations and lots of resources, England has a decaying population and diminishing importance as an economy and that will be translated in less political power, it is just a matter of time, 2 or 3 decades to see England reduced to a minor world power, today is India, China, the US, Russia and Brazil the true world powers and a United South America will really become a true world power, so Argentina needs to strength its technology to lead the Spanish speaking nations in UNASUR to achieve higher standards of living and technology.
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b787
Captain
all politicians are like that everywhere
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
The Falklands war is a conflict fought for all the wrong reasons. had the Junta not invaded chances are they would have eventually gotten the islands through negotiation. but by invading they hardened both the population of the Falklands and the UK against that for a long time. in 2013 the Falklands held a referendum on the status of the islands. out of the total population of 2,841 souls 1,650 are eligible to vote. the vote got a 90% turn out with 1,517 submitted votes. 3 people Voted against continued administration by the UK, that brings one of the reasons Invasion was a poor choice.
Culturally the Falklands are the Falklands not the Malvinas. The move to take the islands was a invasion. The Argentinian Marines who landed came thinking they were liberators but instead of landing on Argentine soil they landed in a place more akin to the island of man.
[video=youtube_share;Rgmos0Q6xK0]http://youtu.be/Rgmos0Q6xK0[/video]
Culturally the Falklands are the Falklands not the Malvinas. The move to take the islands was a invasion. The Argentinian Marines who landed came thinking they were liberators but instead of landing on Argentine soil they landed in a place more akin to the island of man.
[video=youtube_share;Rgmos0Q6xK0]http://youtu.be/Rgmos0Q6xK0[/video]
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b787
Captain
Falkland Islands’ referendum blasted by the Argentine embassy in Montevideo media
In full half page white and blue ads the Argentine embassy in Montevideo expressed on Tuesday how grateful it is to Uruguay for its support in the Malvinas Islands claim and for having been one of the first countries to reject the ‘legitimacy and publicity stunt’ of the ‘pseudo-referendum’ recently held in the Falklands.
Let me take a wild guess at the result of the Falklands referendum - yes, 100% of the British citizens taking part in this farcical exercise would like the islands to remain a British overseas territory.
Maybe some maverick among the 1,672 eligible voters will say no or spoil their ballot paper. But I somehow doubt it.
A Reuters report states that a high turnout is expected and an overwhelming "yes" vote is likely. Likely? It's a given. No wonder Ladbrokes called the result "the biggest certainty in political betting history".
I agree with the tenor of an opinion piece in today
UN Calls On Britain To Hold Falklands Talks
The United Nations takes Argentina's side in the feud, as its foreign minister says it is "imperative" Britain negotiates.
Argentina has dismissed Britain’s proposal for a referendum that would let residents of the disputed Malvinas Islands decide whether to remain under British colonial rule as “illegal.” "The referendum is illegal because the United Nations declared it to be a nation implanted since 1833 when London invaded and expelled the Argentine inhabitants,
Gov't says claim for Malvinas is supported by 'a majority of nations'
Malvinas Affairs Secretary Daniel Filmus.
Malvinas Affairs Secretary Daniel Filmus has said a “majority” of nations accompany Argentina’s claim over the Malvinas Islands, as the 182nd anniversary of the British occupation of the South Atlantic territories is remembered today.
How and when did the Argentine population
arrive on the Malvinas Islands?
At the beginning of the Argentine independence
movement, the islands were part of the
territories inherited from Spain. In 1820 the
Buenos Aires Government formally took possession
of the Malvinas Islands. The Times of London
reported the event without raising any
protest or action by the British Government.
Afterseveral years of Argentine presence on the
islands, in 1829 Buenos Aires appointed Luis
Vernet as political and military commander.
He undertook pioneering work on the islands.
His wife, Maria Saez, recalls in her diary how
difficult those early days were. Their daughter,
Malvina, was the first person registered as
born on the islands. The settlers brought by
Vernet built houses and salteries. The Governor
promoted the settlement of livestock
workers and providers of services to fishing
vessels calling at the islands
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787, this thread is is not a political grand stand for the Argentine position on the Falklands.
Of course the hard line Argentineans think a vote by the people living on the Falklands today is a farce...what else could they say?
But the facts are simple.
1) Argentina lost the war.
2) The UK hardened its position on the Falkland's as a result of the war and that will remain so for several more decades in all probability.
3) The people who live on the Falkland's now do, by far and away, well over 98%, want to remain a part of the UK.
Those are the facts now, and the ones that matter the most.
Do not turn this into a political/ideological thread about the Falkland's. If you do...you will be suspended and the thread will be closed.
DO NOT RESPOND TO THOS MODERATION
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
One of the interesting points of the Falklands war was the general lack of Mechanization. although Standly is only 5 miles The Argentine Marine Corps are a small scale mechanized force when compared to the USMC but they have some armor including AAV7 ( same as the USMC), Panhard VCR ( french made APC's), ERC 90 F1 Lynx ( A scout with a 90mm cannon based on the same) but by the time the British landed and the war really started the only armor on the islands was 12 AML-90 these are wheeled scouts with a 90mm smooth bore cannon.
The British Royal Marines by Doctrine use nothing of the type The British did employ some light armor 4x FV101 Scorpion with 76mm cannons ( tracked 8 ton scout tanks) , 4x FV107 Scimitar ( more or less the same as the Scorpion but with a 30mm gun and a single FV106 Samson recovery vehicle based on the same hull.
9 light armor for the british vs 12 Light armor for the Argentines the only battle the Battle of Wireless Ridge.
The results a british victory with 3 British losses 11 wounded compared to 37 captured 125 wounded and 25 dead on the Argentine side. the Argentine Vehicles were abandoned despite the superior guns and numbers of the Panhards they were were not used against the Scorpions or Scimitars as far as I have ever read there crew's were dismounted. All of the combat was light infantry, artillery and air combat.
The British Royal Marines by Doctrine use nothing of the type The British did employ some light armor 4x FV101 Scorpion with 76mm cannons ( tracked 8 ton scout tanks) , 4x FV107 Scimitar ( more or less the same as the Scorpion but with a 30mm gun and a single FV106 Samson recovery vehicle based on the same hull.
9 light armor for the british vs 12 Light armor for the Argentines the only battle the Battle of Wireless Ridge.
The results a british victory with 3 British losses 11 wounded compared to 37 captured 125 wounded and 25 dead on the Argentine side. the Argentine Vehicles were abandoned despite the superior guns and numbers of the Panhards they were were not used against the Scorpions or Scimitars as far as I have ever read there crew's were dismounted. All of the combat was light infantry, artillery and air combat.
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Miragedriver
Brigadier
That was the main problem with the infantry units stationed on the islands. They were conscripts from the more temperate climate around Buenos Aires. The real fear at the time was an attack by Chile in Tierra del Fuego and Patagonia. The veteran professional forces were stationed there.
The Army’s lake of foresight to place a mobile force on the island to counter attack the landing at San Carlos and harass British force show a lack of basic understanding of military tactics
Back to bottling my Grenache
The Army’s lake of foresight to place a mobile force on the island to counter attack the landing at San Carlos and harass British force show a lack of basic understanding of military tactics
Back to bottling my Grenache