H-6 Bomber Aircraft Discussions

I don't think there is any need for panic It is normal development of Chinese airforce now that they have medium range bomber might as well use it for patrol
US flew bomber close to SCS so no difference. This article make comment on refueling and they just did that From Henri K. And of course in time of real crisis they will be escorted by fighter
The composite fueling boom, developed by CASC for a certain "large aircraft", was delivered for installation. H-6N? Y-20x?
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Chinese bomber runs near Guam aimed at sending a message to US, analysts say
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US defence officials tell military news website they’re worried about potential threat from Beijing

PUBLISHED : Wednesday, 01 November, 2017, 7:01pm
UPDATED : Wednesday, 01 November, 2017, 8:20pm

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The H-6K Badger warplanes – with 1,600km range air-launched cruise missiles – are testing US defence zones around Guam, the Military Times quoted unnamed US defence officials in the region as saying on Tuesday.

China’s bomber runs targeting Guam were part of a range of activities making US forces in the territory worry about the potential threat from Beijing – even as North Korea pursues its nuclear weapons programme, the report said.

“It’s very common for [People’s Republic of China] aircraft to intercept US aircraft” these days, one of the officials said. “The PRC is practising attacks on Guam.”

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China’s recent activities in the area suggested it was preparing to defend expanded boundaries, according to the officials.

“We now have, on a daily basis, armed Chinese Flankers and Japanese aircraft” coming in close proximity of each other, the officials said, adding that intercepts between the US and China were also increasing.

China’s defence ministry did not respond to a request for comment.

The H-6K, a strategic bomber that entered service in 2009, is designed for long-range and stand-off attacks and could strike US carrier battle groups and priority targets in Asia.

It has a combat range of 2,000km while the missile it carries extends the bomber’s strike range to 4,000km – meaning it can operate over the high seas.

The bombers were used to patrol the Scarborough Shoal area of the South China Sea – an area claimed by both Beijing and Manila – in July last year, according to Chinese state media.

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Collin Koh, a maritime security expert at Nanyang Technological University in Singapore, said China was trying to strengthen its deterrence capability by pushing further into the western Pacific Ocean.

“I believe China is first and foremost keen to intensify measures closer to shore, but pushing the envelope further out into the western Pacific also serves the purpose of enhancing deterrence against the US, with an overall strategic aim of raising the costs of Washington if it chooses to intervene militarily in, say, Taiwan or the East China Sea,” Koh said.

China first revealed its new-generation H-6K strategic bomber at a military parade in 2015 marking the 70th anniversary of the end of the second world war. The new aircraft will be equipped with DH-20 land-attack cruise missiles, putting Australia within striking distance. At present, only Russia and the US can launch cruise missiles from the air.

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But military experts said shortfalls in the design would hold back its combat capabilities.

“Without mid-air refuelling and proper fighter escorts, these bombers are essentially sitting ducks out over the open western Pacific,” Koh said.

Given the limitations, Zhou Chenming, another military expert, said China was mainly using the warplane for nearshore operations.

“It’s absurd for China to deploy H-6Ks to attack Guam because Chinese missiles – or even nuclear weapons – can do the same job without dispatching personnel. Currently, those bombers mainly fly around Taiwan, sending a message to the island’s pro-independence forces,” Zhou said.

Talk about just mentioning half the story. Looks like China is pushing back against the long time US campaign of aggression of directly and instigating others to militarize air and maritime space around China's periphery including unilateral ADIZs, close-in surveillance, maritime claim challenges, gunboat diplomacy with naval fleets and bomber formations, massive forward military basing, etc.
 

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
I don't think there is any need for panic It is normal development of Chinese airforce now that they have medium range bomber might as well use it for patrol
US flew bomber close to SCS so no difference.


......

But military experts said shortfalls in the design would hold back its combat capabilities.

“Without mid-air refuelling and proper fighter escorts, these bombers are essentially sitting ducks out over the open western Pacific,” Koh said.

Given the limitations, Zhou Chenming, another military expert, said China was mainly using the warplane for nearshore operations.

“It’s absurd for China to deploy H-6Ks to attack Guam because Chinese missiles – or even nuclear weapons – can do the same job without dispatching personnel. Currently, those bombers mainly fly around Taiwan, sending a message to the island’s pro-independence forces,” Zhou said.

It is a message that "rules apply to everyone, so is freedom enjoyed by everyone." Well done.

Regarding the practicality, it is not so outlandish for H-6 to conduct such mission as the two people suggested. Maybe they want to play down the "scare" of panicked people.

Yes, such kind of bomber need proper escort to do their job in a real fight, H-6 is not alone, B-52 faces the same issue.

Refueling is not an issue either. Any route that H-6 need to take to reach 1500km of Guam is no more than 3000km. H-6 has a comfortable combat radius of 3500km, the maximum return range is 4000km giving a lot of margins.

Of course, in such case, H-6 will not go between Japan and Taiwan due to hostility of both and their air space gap is maximum 100km well within SAM's reach.

The most likely route is north of Philippine. By now I think it is clear to everybody why there were so many dramas recently around Philippine. When there is no Clark airbase and missile defense, it is pretty safe for H-6 to pass. The route only require H-6 to fly 2500km from Chinese coast to reach a firing distance.
 

FORBIN

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
It is a message that "rules apply to everyone, so is freedom enjoyed by everyone." Well done.

Regarding the practicality, it is not so outlandish for H-6 to conduct such mission as the two people suggested. Maybe they want to play down the "scare" of panicked people.

Yes, such kind of bomber need proper escort to do their job in a real fight, H-6 is not alone, B-52 faces the same issue.

Refueling is not an issue either. Any route that H-6 need to take to reach 1500km of Guam is no more than 3000km. H-6 has a comfortable combat radius of 3500km, the maximum return range is 4000km giving a lot of margins.

Of course, in such case, H-6 will not go between Japan and Taiwan due to hostility of both and their air space gap is maximum 100km well within SAM's reach.

The most likely route is north of Philippine. By now I think it is clear to everybody why there were so many dramas recently around Philippine. When there is no Clark airbase and missile defense, it is pretty safe for H-6 to pass. The route only require H-6 to fly 2500km from Chinese coast to reach a firing distance.

Actualy with 18 H-6U tankers possible refuel 9 H-6 1st can transfer max 18 t H-6 host 36 T ...
3 Il-78 can transfer 42 t more for Il-78M so 4 H-6
Total 13 H-6 a Rgt have 18

A tanker in general can transfer 50 % of the fuel dépends type
For fighters i don' t see how you refuel

I add : In more fighters are limited by oil qty a Rafale can fly max 10 - 11 hour
 
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taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
Actualy with 18 H-6U tankers possible refuel 9 H-6 1st can transfer max 18 t H-6 host 36 T ...
3 Il-78 can transfer 42 t more for Il-78M so 4 H-6
Total 13 H-6 a Rgt have 18

A tanker in general can transfer 50 % of the fuel dépends type
For fighters i don' t see how you refuel

I add : In more fighters are limited by oil qty a Rafale can fly max 10 - 11 hour
I believe you are talking about refueling the escort fighters in this kind of operation. I admit I did not mention that necessity.

I was only trying to say that refueling H-6 for a bombing raid of less than 3000km is not necessary.

The escort fighters do need, which can be achieved by the existing H-6 tankers.
 

Gloire_bb

Captain
Registered Member
Bombers rely on the range of their missiles and fighter support to stay alive.

In a conflict scenario, no bomber would fly without fighter escort in or even near enemy territory.
As well as elint, ew, geography, speed, penetration aids(fakes), formations, deception and many other things. Even rear gunner, if he can help(and ew suite is strong enough to make him so).
Sometimes even shutting defensive installations on their own.
Traditional strategic bomber mission is partially or even completely unescorted, for fighters simply can't reach that far.

Even if bomber is shorter ranged and escort is expected, up-to-date aircraft has to be capable of surviving on its own.
 
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FORBIN

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
As well as elint, ew, geography, speed, penetration aids(fakes), formations, deception and many other things. Even rear gunner, if he can help(and ew suite is strong enough to make him so).
Sometimes even shutting defensive installations on their own.
Traditional strategic bomber mission is partially or even completely unescorted, for fighters simply can't reach that far.

Even if bomber is shorter ranged and escort is expected, up-to-date aircraft has to be capable of surviving on its own.
Now only Tu-22M and Tu-95MS have guns
 

Gloire_bb

Captain
Registered Member
Now only Tu-22M and Tu-95MS have guns
They're used as kind of unorthodox directed chaff dispensers.
Their EW suite isn't up to the task to make anyone attack with a gun for a very long time.
On the other hand, b-52Ds over Hanoi did exactly that. And even had actual kills.
 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
As well as elint, ew, geography, speed, penetration aids(fakes), formations, deception and many other things. Even rear gunner, if he can help(and ew suite is strong enough to make him so).
Sometimes even shutting defensive installations on their own.
Traditional strategic bomber mission is partially or even completely unescorted, for fighters simply can't reach that far.

Even if bomber is shorter ranged and escort is expected, up-to-date aircraft has to be capable of surviving on its own.

The only bombers remotely capable of surviving without fighter escort in contested airspace would be stealth bombers.

But even they will be taking a monumental risk trying to penetrate Russian or Chinese airspace relying purely on stealth, because modern anti-stealth radars will have a very good chance of detecting them. And while those radars lack the resolution to cue missiles, they will be more than capable of directing fighters close enough to pick up the B2s themselves for engagement.

So even the likes of the B2 will almost certainly need Raptors as escorts if they want to try hitting any of the major players.

And while fighters might lack range on their own internal fuel stores, IFR can pretty much give fighters unlimited range, with pilot endurance the only limiting factor.
 

Gloire_bb

Captain
Registered Member
The only bombers remotely capable of surviving without fighter escort in contested airspace would be stealth bombers.
Truly deadly airspace is limited. We're talking about very large countries, after all.
To bomb something with free fall bombs in conventional conflict, from expected direction and within expected timeframe - yes, you're right.

While it's a very important capability (to use inherent reconnaissance capability of manned bomber), which makes b-21 raider so important to USGC, it isn't the only option.

P.s.bomber EW suite can do much more than just complicate matters to radars and missiles. ;)
 

latenlazy

Brigadier
Truly deadly airspace is limited. We're talking about very large countries, after all.
To bomb something with free fall bombs in conventional conflict, from expected direction and within expected timeframe - yes, you're right.

While it's a very important capability (to use inherent reconnaissance capability of manned bomber), which makes b-21 raider so important to USGC, it isn't the only option.

P.s.bomber EW suite can do much more than just complicate matters to radars and missiles. ;)
The number of places that would be targeted with a bombing raid is also limited. Of course bombers will have jammers and scramblers, but that’s not going to help much if you’re going to be painted in every direction. Expect a lot of divine eagles to be doing security duty spotting out intrusions in domestic airspace.
 
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