H-20 bomber (with H-X, JH-XX)

Discussion continued here to avoid derailing original thread.

Biscuits said:

Is it really so from a credible source that H-20 will have 4 engines?

Click to expand...

To be honest, regardless of whether there are official sources for the matter - The H-20 being a Chinese analogue (or at least, a 21st-century analogue) to the American B-2 (which means VLO, subsonic and powered by 4x non-afterburning engines) has been widely anticipated by the PLA watching community for quite some years by now.

Biscuits said:

With 4 engines it's going to produce same thrust as a Tu-160.

Click to expand...

They could just go with a non-afterburning variant of the WS-10C or WS-15. This is the same as how the B-2 is powered by 4x F118 (which is the non-afterburner variant of the F110), and how the B-21 is expected to be powered by 2x non-afterburning variant of the F135.

Of course, if China decides to procure a B-1B/Tu-160M-equivalent, then having 4x afterburning WS-10/WS-15 engines should do. But then, given that such platforms would be heavily focusing on the payload dimension + weight, combat radius and VLO requirements, I don't think that a supersonic H-20 is likely at this point.

polati said:

Why are most of the depictions of the H-20 have a beak like shape, which degrades stealth capability to some degree? I feel if H-20 is indeed a subsonic flying wing, they wouldn't sacrifice stealth simply to make it different from the B-2 or B-21.. So highly likely it looks almost exactly like the B-2 or B-21, those are the most optimized shapes which are still practical to fly.

There should be no need to add a beak, any folding conforming tail, or any extra protusions, it should be as simple as the B-21 in terms of shape

Click to expand...

I believe that such design considerations (primarily) stem from concerns regarding the length of the internal weapons bays (IWB) of the H-20, as the simpler flying wing designs of the B-2 and B-21 with leading edges that are at shallower but uniform angles leading away from the nose of the aircraft means a shorter overall length of the aircraft itself, resulting in only IWBs that are shorter in length being viable.

Hence, it is likely that such a cranked-kite/beaked design is meant to mitigate such downsides by offering a longer airframe that is able to fit longer IWBs, with the leading edges of the wings initially having a steeper angle leading away from the nose of the aircraft, where the angle gradually becomes shallower as the leading edges get much further away from the nose of the aircraft.



Such designs could bring at least certain degree of negatives to the VLO characteristics of the warplane itself, as there are more irregularities of the shaping of the warplane itself when subject to enemy radar waves.

But then, if the PLAAF doesn't strongly demand the H-20 to perform missions that would require penetrating very deep into peer enemy-controlled airspaces with integrated enemy air defense networks and without allied support, and is content with (mostly) lobbing standoff missiles (including ALBMs and even AL-HGVs) from extended distances against the enemy, then such tradeoffs may be deemed acceptable to the PLAAF.

Of course, what I've explained above has no bearing on what the H-20 would eventually look like. The PLAAF knows the best on what they actually want from the H-20, and Xi'an AC will produce the H-20 strictly per the PLAAF's instructions.

antwerpery said:

Just throwing my prediction out there in case it does come out tomorrow. I think that the H20 is gonna to be huge. Much much bigger than the B21, J36 or the B-2. Maybe even the largest bomber ever built by a clear margin. With the J-36 being able to fulfill some of it's role as a stealthy long range bomber- that can go supersonic at that, there's no reason to invest billions into the sub-sonic H20 unless it has a massive advantage over the J36. And I think that advantage over the J36 is greatly increased size, payload, power generation and range. And the J36 is already very big as it as. So that equals a utterly massive bomber.

Click to expand...

Maybe size isn't where it would stand out. It's been reportedly delayed for years so I would imagine that there has been SOME redesign involved. Increasing the size would make it a whole new plane, so I wonder that with the new direction for air combat that the J-36 is bringing, could the H-20 be going in a similar direction? That is, maybe it could be designed as a stealthy AWACS or be capable of having such a variant as much as a bomber?

Personally I would be happy with the next variant of the H-6. A variant that could do CCA/EW/AWACS. Give it a big APU to generate enough power and also give it capability to refuel its companion drones. A lot of the people here would be disappointed though I think.

Xiongmao said:

Personally I would be happy with the next variant of the H-6. A variant that could do CCA/EW/AWACS. Give it a big APU to generate enough power and also give it capability to refuel its companion drones. A lot of the people here would be disappointed though I think.

Click to expand...

Nah, there's already a Y-20 AWACs showcased recently. Seems like it would fulfill all those capability you have listed. There's not much need for a supersonic version, at least not a H6 sized one.

tankphobia said:

Nah, there's already a Y-20 AWACs showcased recently. Seems like it would fulfill all those capability you have listed. There's not much need for a supersonic version, at least not a H6 sized one.

Click to expand...

No a sub-sonic H6, same engines, but kitted out to be the central command of say half a dozen drones. I knew you would be disappointed. Looking for that shiny new thang I know.

Maybe the real H-20 is the friends we made along the way.

dingyibvs said:

Maybe size isn't where it would stand out. It's been reportedly delayed for years so I would imagine that there has been SOME redesign involved. Increasing the size would make it a whole new plane, so I wonder that with the new direction for air combat that the J-36 is bringing, could the H-20 be going in a similar direction? That is, maybe it could be designed as a stealthy AWACS or be capable of having such a variant as much as a bomber?

Click to expand...

I have no doubt that the H20 will likely have a insane amount of EW and sensors, turning it into a stealthy AWACS. The issue is that the J36 is already a stealthy AWACS so again, their roles are overlapping a lot. Hence why I think the size is what will make the H20 stand out from the J36.

polati said:

Why are most of the depictions of the H-20 have a beak like shape, which degrades stealth capability to some degree?

Click to expand...

In principle, single sweep angled front edge is good in stealth by having only two major reflection directions, but it is bad (very bad) in aerodynamic stability, lift coefficiency and the whole wing is thick adding more air resistence.

Therefor, two sweep angled design is preferred if one want a more balanced option. It divides the two major directions to four, but reduced in all. It degrade stealth because the enemy has more chances to detect it, but it increase stealth because the detection range is shortened due to the reduced reflection strength.

polati said:

I feel if H-20 is indeed a subsonic flying wing, they wouldn't sacrifice stealth simply to make it different from the B-2 or B-21..

Click to expand...

I remember seeing early B-21 depicition having two sweep angled wings. So B-21 observers were expecting such design as well for the same reason of H-20 observes. Also, PLAAF is not USAAF, the principle of aircraft is the same, but priority and purpose are not.

polati said:

So highly likely it looks almost exactly like the B-2 or B-21, those are the most optimized shapes which are still practical to fly.

Click to expand...

B-2 and the final B-21 designs are compromizes as much as the purported H-20 design, there is never a best and most optimized shapes.

polati said:

There should be no need to add a beak, any folding conforming tail, or any extra protusions, it should be as simple as the B-21 in terms of shape

Click to expand...

The beak and folding conforming tail are to improve controlability that B-2 and B-21 designs lack. Yes B-2 is very stealthy, but it is very bad to fly. If stealth is the only thing one want, then not flying is the best option.

antwerpery said:

I have no doubt that the H20 will likely have an insane amount of EW and sensors, turning it into a stealthy AWACS. The issue is that the J36 is already a stealthy AWACS so again, their roles are overlapping a lot. Hence why I think the size is what will make the H20 stand out from the J36.

Click to expand...

052DL and 055 vibes.