H-20 bomber (with H-X, JH-XX)

ACuriousPLAFan

Brigadier
Registered Member
I think if it arrives without any of the expected trimmings, people will be rather dissatisfied.
There are already some Chinese netizens who are wishing, if not outright expecting the H-20 to be some kind of huge, near-space, hypersonic orbital bomber that could lob ICBMs at the continental US.

Similar to those Chinese netizens who stubbornly still believe that Fujian is secretly nuclear-powered, I hope that these people are in the very minority.
 

Jason_

Junior Member
Registered Member
There are already some Chinese netizens who are wishing, if not outright expecting the H-20 to be some kind of huge, near-space, hypersonic orbital bomber that could lob ICBMs at the continental US.

Similar to those Chinese netizens who stubbornly still believe that Fujian is secretly nuclear-powered, I hope that these people are in the very minority.
I want the H-20 to be a subsonic flying wing and will be extremely disappointed if it ends up being a supersonic, let alone hypersonic, white elephant that won’t have the range, cost effectiveness, and IR/radar stealth to actually matter.
 

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
I want the H-20 to be a subsonic flying wing and will be extremely disappointed if it ends up being a supersonic, let alone hypersonic, white elephant that won’t have the range, cost effectiveness, and IR/radar stealth to actually matter.
subsonic flying wings aren't the end all be all. RCS is angle and frequency dependent and an aircraft will present a flat reflector (highest RCS) when either overflying or underlying a radar. Their size is in resonance with the wavelengths of many long range OTH radars including PAVE PAWS and Jindalee.

PLA would have done tons of EM and operations modeling and prototype testing before committing to a design, let alone production.
 

TK3600

Major
Registered Member
From the way he worded things it will be used in a different way than US. This meant likely lots of design differences vs b21. It is possible they arrived at same form despite different usage, but that is doubtful.

He also said the plane is constantly upgraded. It implies still at late prototype stage. Yet he said it is coming soon. Likely they are satisfied with current form and is in the wrap up of design stage. The form is about to be settled.


After this it will be more mundane type of tests like reliability and stuff.
 

Jason_

Junior Member
Registered Member
subsonic flying wings aren't the end all be all. RCS is angle and frequency dependent and an aircraft will present a flat reflector (highest RCS) when either overflying or underlying a radar. Their size is in resonance with the wavelengths of many long range OTH radars including PAVE PAWS and Jindalee.

PLA would have done tons of EM and operations modeling and prototype testing before committing to a design, let alone production.
A flying wing with the B-2/21 planform with have all-aspect broadband stealth from VHF to Ka.

Overflight of radars won’t happen with the use of guided munitions which have respectable standoff range even if wingless and unpowered.

PAVE PAWS operates on UHF and is not OTH. HF radar could work and will certainly be the PLA’s major focus to counter the B-21.

OTH radars is an area that China will have asymmetric geographic advantage since its continuous continental landmass is far more favorable than small islands in deploying, maintaining and protecting OTH radars.

I would consider it a crowning achievement for the PLA if the H-20 forces the US to build an OTH network in CONUS.
 

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
A flying wing with the B-2/21 planform with have all-aspect broadband stealth from VHF to Ka.

Overflight of radars won’t happen with the use of guided munitions which have respectable standoff range even if wingless and unpowered.

PAVE PAWS operates on UHF and is not OTH. HF radar could work and will certainly be the PLA’s major focus to counter the B-21.

OTH radars is an area that China will have asymmetric geographic advantage since its continuous continental landmass is far more favorable than small islands in deploying, maintaining and protecting OTH radars.

I would consider it a crowning achievement for the PLA if the H-20 forces the US to build an OTH network in CONUS.
IDK about all aspect. A highly asymmetric shape is unlikely to have all aspect anything that is angle dependent.

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5435837.fig.002.jpg


Overflight of radars that are off happens all the time. See Ukraine. The fire control radars stay off until target presence is confirmed by other means (early warning radar, IR, visual) and then they turn on at the last second for targeting at point blank.

And during overflight, the RCS is gigantic.

5435837.fig.003b.jpg


The opposing fighter fleet is huge, and all the F-35s, F-18s and a large chunk of F-15s and F-16s are equipped with IRST. IDK how many stealth bombers (which might number as few as ~20-50 at the start of the conflict due to expense, build time and complexity) will survive initial contact with F-35s and F-18s being vectored by early warning radars. I don't have the information to judge this.

I think that something with something with a (stretched) fighter form factor for tactical/regional use, based on the experiences of the J-20 and J-35, used as an intermediate weight and range missile truck (munitions ~400-1000 km), would be more appropriate/realistic IMO.

It could have much cheaper development (ie can use existing engines or radar), be built in high numbers due to shared parts pool, still have very good stealth without compromising kinematics and be more flexible. And it would fit the PLA development pattern so far.
 

ACuriousPLAFan

Brigadier
Registered Member
I think that something with something with a (stretched) fighter form factor for tactical/regional use, based on the experiences of the J-20 and J-35, used as an intermediate weight and range missile truck (munitions ~400-1000 km), would be more appropriate/realistic IMO.

It could have much cheaper development (ie can use existing engines or radar), be built in high numbers due to shared parts pool, still have very good stealth without compromising kinematics and be more flexible. And it would fit the PLA development pattern so far.

Wouldn't that be basically JH-XX?
 

Jason_

Junior Member
Registered Member
IDK about all aspect. A highly asymmetric shape is unlikely to have all aspect anything that is angle dependent.

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5435837.fig.002.jpg
That’s an F-22 which is not an all aspect wideband stealth aircraft. Only a large flying wing like the B-2 or the B-21 are all aspect wideband stealth. Flying wing drones like the GJ-11 are also all aspect stealth but its performance is worse at the very low frequencies (but still much better than any stealth fighter today).
Overflight of radars that are off happens all the time. See Ukraine. The fire control radars stay off until target presence is confirmed by other means (early warning radar, IR, visual) and then they turn on at the last second for targeting at point blank.

And during overflight, the RCS is gigantic.

5435837.fig.003b.jpg


The opposing fighter fleet is huge, and all the F-35s, F-18s and a large chunk of F-15s and F-16s are equipped with IRST. IDK how many stealth bombers (which might number as few as ~20-50 at the start of the conflict due to expense, build time and complexity) will survive initial contact with F-35s and F-18s being vectored by early warning radars. I don't have the information to judge this.
VLO stealth bombers operates on fundamentally different paradigm from stealth tactical fighters like the F-22/F-35/J-20. A stealth fighter can be detected but is expected to survive using its own weapons and kinematics. A stealth bomber is designed to never be spotted at all. Hence the all aspect wideband stealth design to defeat long range surveillance radar. So the overflight situation won’t happen except by coincidence or by insane radar density.
I think that something with something with a (stretched) fighter form factor for tactical/regional use, based on the experiences of the J-20 and J-35, used as an intermediate weight and range missile truck (munitions ~400-1000 km), would be more appropriate/realistic IMO.

It could have much cheaper development (ie can use existing engines or radar), be built in high numbers due to shared parts pool, still have very good stealth without compromising kinematics and be more flexible. And it would fit the PLA development pattern so far.
That’s the GJ-11. Cheap, all aspect wideband VLO, exceptional range via clean flying wing design, high-high-high mission profile, and large fuel fraction. The value of kinematics is only justifiable if the performance of launched munition is greatly dependent on launch parameters (i.e. air to air missiles, rocket powered land attack missile like HARM). Otherwise, the penalty from supersonic flight on cost and mainteinance is prohibitive (see B-52 vs. B-1B).
 
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