good read...Enjoy

I think the operation was designed to test how fast the Americans could deploy Naval forces if the President decides to attack Iran.

Remember the Americans have already concluded in their war-game that if the Iranians SUSPECT that america is about to attack they will take pre-emptive action.

The Iranians are not inert targets! If they started to think we were moving in the direction of a military move against them, they would start fighting us right away."

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Red I for one do not tend to under score the OPFOR be it russia or iran. I think both forces could and will be lethal in time of war. I think iran is not even on the same playing field as russia but could still pose problems against the U.S. I think any TRUE invasion into iran to take Terhan would be one of the hardest military ventures sense the Koren war. It would not be a 21 day cruise like Iraq.....cheers ute

I think the operation was designed to test how fast the Americans could deploy Naval forces if the President decides to attack Iran

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Correct. That's all it really was. A show of force. One of those CVN's was the Ronald Reagan. And it was simply in transit from Norfolk via South America with a very limited hogepog air wing. Never the less the USN did deploy 7 CV's. Quite a feet.

Indianfighter said:

The maximum speed of cruising of the Brahmos missiles is Mach 2.9 as compared to Mach 2.1 of the Sunburn during high-altitude cruise.

Besides, the range of the Brahmos is 290 kms as compared to 100kms for the Sunburn. The reason is that the Brahmos carries a warhead of 200 kgs, whereas 750 pounds is carried by the Sunburn missile.

The guidance of the Brahmos is by GPS/INS and by Active radar and Artificial Intelligence (for cluster attack). A high-speed datalink between UAV and Brahmos is being developed.

The guidance of the aerial version of the Sunburn missile is by auto-pilot from the source aircraft, with possible course correction by the pilot(Source Fas.org).

Thus, the Sunburn missile is not a true Fire-and-forget missile, whereas the Brahmos is, and can guarantee pin-point accuracy of hitting the target.

But, the development of a continuous datalink between the UAV and the Brahmos missile is under development(similar to the sunburn missile).

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Sunburn's enhanced version has a range of 240 KM. The speed is more like mach 2.9 vs mach 2.5 in the closing stage. The Brahmos range of 290KM is measured through hi-lo and suburn's range of 240 KM is measured through lo-lo. Huge difference.

utelore said:

Red I for one do not tend to under score the OPFOR be it russia or iran. I think both forces could and will be lethal in time of war. I think iran is not even on the same playing field as russia but could still pose problems against the U.S. I think any TRUE invasion into iran to take Terhan would be one of the hardest military ventures sense the Koren war. It would not be a 21 day cruise like Iraq.....cheers ute

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Actually you weren't on my crosshair...popeye was.

Yet again I don't think russia would be pleased to see it's weaponery battle tested. Despite current regain of form the financial status of Russia is average at best, so it could simply see it's ressources drying like in 99 when the US speculative crowd digged in the Russian state debt in order to keep moscow out of business in Kosovo. A third party war with russian toys would be funn for a while, but could have it's backlash too. Political unrest in the Rodina, economical fallout...Russia hasn't full control of it's economy anymore.

That could be a bitter "back to reality" call. You must see the whole picture that in this peculiar case is overhelmly on the US favour. That, the article fails to see. And commits the same error it calims to avoid. Erecting one specific threat to a war-winner (or at least a balancing asset). Iran on the other side has some too (oil, religious communities in the "great middle east", a fresh full scale war experience).

The critical issue would be China. Where would China stand...if China takes advantage of the potential war (like the USSR in Shit Nam) then yes Russia too could be an Issue. Suddenly the Chinese role seems huge. A potential war with Iran would simply be the handover of the Russian influence and proeminency in the region to China. Like WW2 was for GB towards the USA.

And then the USa would have a lot of troubles...pesky region heh.

Indianfighter said:

The maximum speed of cruising of the Brahmos missiles is Mach 2.9 as compared to Mach 2.1 of the Sunburn during high-altitude cruise.

Besides, the range of the Brahmos is 290 kms as compared to 100kms for the Sunburn. The reason is that the Brahmos carries a warhead of 200 kgs, whereas 750 pounds is carried by the Sunburn missile.

The guidance of the Brahmos is by GPS/INS and by Active radar and Artificial Intelligence (for cluster attack). A high-speed datalink between UAV and Brahmos is being developed.

The guidance of the aerial version of the Sunburn missile is by auto-pilot from the source aircraft, with possible course correction by the pilot(Source Fas.org).

Thus, the Sunburn missile is not a true Fire-and-forget missile, whereas the Brahmos is, and can guarantee pin-point accuracy of hitting the target.

But, the development of a continuous datalink between the UAV and the Brahmos missile is under development(similar to the sunburn missile).

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dude, what does that have to do with this?
why did you all of a sudden bring up brahmos?
the sunburn has a speed of mach 2.5, and has improved 200+ km range.

iran cant simplt sink a u.s carrier with one sunburn, it would take at least a volley to get one through. with russia against iran now, getting more is a nono.

Actually you weren't on my crosshair...popeye was.

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In your crosshairs? I'm scared! Geez.. I really don't understand what the problem is. Give me a moment to research.

Humm?? Is this directed at me?

And It's amazing how some in the US crowd seem to totally ignore the other side. If you made progress in EWS maybe the Iranians too figured out a way to insure a better striking ability to their missiles.

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I often wonder just what sort of ECM other countries have. I'm not so foolish enough to think they have no ECM ablity. I just really don't know. Having spent so much time in the USN I have to work in an high ECM area many times and I know what havoc ECM can bring on the opposing force. I do not underestimate what the Irainians may or may not have ECM wise. I just don't know. Perhaps they do have something to disrupt any US attack. I pray no battle ever occurs between the US and Iran. The ramifications would be devastating for all concerned.

This has been an excellent thread. Outstanding in fact. I congradulate you fellows on keeping the posting civil. An excellent read!

Quoted by tphuang:
_________________
Sunburn's enhanced version has a range of 240 KM. The speed is more like mach 2.9 vs mach 2.5 in the closing stage. The Brahmos range of 290KM is measured through hi-lo and suburn's range of 240 KM is measured through lo-lo. Huge difference.
_________________
The above statement is inaccurate. The Mach 3 version of the Sunburn unvieled by Raduga in 2001, has a reduced range of 100kms, as compared to 120kms for the earlier version. These ranges are in lo-lo profile.
Only the air-launched version has a speed of 250kms.

The estimated speed of the Sunburn varies from Mach 2 to Mach 2.5 only and this is in the high-altitude cruise phase.

During the terminal stage, when the missile reduces altitude to 10 metres, the speed (of ANY ramjet supersonic missile) is reduced to just above Mach 1.
This is due to the high density at lower altitudes.

Source:
1] Defeating the Sunburn
by Harold C. Hutchison
May 29, 2005


3]nti.org


2] Globalsecurity.org (article on sunburn).

Thus, currently the Brahmos is the most sophisticated supersonic cruise missile in the world in terms of range, speed and guidance.

MIGleader said:

dude, what does that have to do with this?
why did you all of a sudden bring up brahmos?
the sunburn has a speed of mach 2.5, and has improved 200+ km range.

iran cant simplt sink a u.s carrier with one sunburn, it would take at least a volley to get one through. with russia against iran now, getting more is a nono.

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History shows that even the bitter ennemies aren't heretically closed to eachother. Remember the Contra-Affair. The US was selling Weaponery to...Iran while in Tehran the Pasdarans were soiling the US flag...

You'll say to me the Iranians were holding hostages, yup and they still do now: 400 mio of european oil consummers+ some kids in japan.

So I can imagine Russia selling weapons to Iran, while denying any such thing publicly.