Germany Carl Zeiss, heart of Dutch ASML Lithography Equipment.

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manqiangrexue

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
adiru said:
So you admit you baiting him on purpose.
You are not a good guy. You selectively bait him on some off topics not engaging him on main topic.
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LOL If you can't handle the heat, get out of the kitchen! A top scientist can't take some scrutiny? I don't think so. I'm a nicer guy than he is; I'm nice enough to play around with your stupid "what if everything fails" questions, aren't I? You'd be bathing in swear words by now if you tried debating him like this instead of asking him like he's a guru LOL
adiru said:
If you say you can handle China fails why you so pumped up whenever someone got some negative view or doubts.
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Don't know where I got pumped up, don't know what it means to fail and doesn't matter what I can handle. I never said China would fail in the long run; I said this could be a setback for as long as SMEE doesn't get its machines up and going.
adiru said:
I dont think so. You said now because you got cornered.
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What's this a reply to? You can't even properly quote me like I'm quoting you. You couldn't ever corner a debater like me. Infinite, "what if that fails?" is not debate; that's trolling.
adiru said:
SMEE has no track record, its chance of success is slim, dont bet on them. Its previous 90nm lithography equipment no one use them.
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Nobody used it because foreign designs were available. SMEE didn't have the funding or incentive to succeed. Now that that's out of the equation, it's full steam ahead for SMEE like never before. What is your field? Are you educated to evaluate the probability of success for SMEE?
adiru said:
Depend on priority. China was prioritizing investment on 5g, ai, and big data. Probably chinese officials dont even know EUV otherwise they would use that buzzword.
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So if I find you a Chinese source with the EUV buzzword, then what?
 
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ZeEa5KPul

ZeEa5KPul

Colonel
Registered Member
manqiangrexue said:
It's simply not intelligent to go further and ask what if all the research efforts fail again and again, wouldn't you agree? If China can't innovate, then China will fail. That is an imminent fate for all countries that cannot innovate.
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I think I should mention again in the vain hope that some people who need to internalize it finally will: Chinese research institutes have already built and demonstrated both DUV and EUV machines. This isn't some pipe dream, it's a project on the cusp of commercialization.
adiru said:
If you say you can handle China fails why you so pumped up whenever someone got some negative view or doubts.
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Because those doubts are unfounded and must be called out as such. Those who hold them have no rational basis for doing so, therefore their emotional tantrums have no place in a science and fact-based discussion.
adiru said:
SMEE has no track record, its chance of success is slim, dont bet on them.
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Your advice on gambling is like your "analysis" on semiconductors - completely devoid of fact and reason and based solely on your Eeyore-like negativity. Why should anyone here pay it any attention?
adiru said:
Probably chinese officials dont even know EUV otherwise they would use that buzzword.
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Strange, considering they've been funding EUV development since at least 2002. Your evidence that they were unaware of it is?
 
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adiru

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Registered Member
manqiangrexue said:
LOL If you can't handle the heat, get out of the kitchen! A top scientist can't take some scrutiny? I don't think so. I'm a nicer guy than him; I'm nice enough to play around with your stupid "what if everything fails" questions, aren't I?

Don't know where I got pumped up, don't know what it means to fail and doesn't matter what I can handle. I never said China would fail in the long run; I said this could be a setback for as long as SMEE doesn't get its machines up and going.

What's this a reply to? You couldn't ever corner a debater like me. Infinite, "what if that fails?" is not debate; that's trolling.

Nobody used it because foreign designs were available. SMEE didn't have the funding or incentive to succeed. Now that that's out of the equation, it's full steam ahead for SMEE like never before. What is your field? Are you educated to evaluate the probability of success for SMEE?

So if I find you a Chinese source with the EUV buzzword, then what?
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What you doing is not science scrutiny. Its cheapshots because you dont engage in science directly.

I evulate SMEE based on its past technical expertise . Nope. more money and man power may not solve it. It could get stuck for the next 10years.

If Chinese officials use the buzzword EUV its a good sign.
 
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ZeEa5KPul

ZeEa5KPul

Colonel
Registered Member
adiru said:
What you doing is not science scrutiny.
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Neither is what you're doing. The difference between you is that what he writes is worth reading.
adiru said:
Its cheapshots because you dont engage in science directly.
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Let's for the sake of argument say that all he's done is take cheap shots at you, what is it that you've written that merits anything better? And to be clear, he hasn't taken a single cheap shot at you; he's addressed your "arguments" with far more poise and thoughtfulness than they deserve.
adiru said:
I evulate SMEE based on its past technical expertise .
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No, you evaluate it based on a pathological negativity. I mean, if you believe China is that weak and destined for failure just let it go already. If China's already dead then let the dead rest in peace.
 
manqiangrexue

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
adiru said:
What you doing is not science scrutiny. Its cheapshots because you dont engage in science directly.
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Whenever I ask him for evidence, it's scientific scrutiny in the broad sense that all science is evidence-based. For his personal credentials, I'm not going to just assume everything he says about his interactions with top companies is true. If somebody who got fired multiple times told you he just happened to have all terrible bosses, you believe him? If someone told you he's smart enough to be a top Google engineer but Google was too stupid to hire him, you believe that? I have mental checks, and you don't. As long as someone's willing to be your friend, he's the smartest guy in the world to you.
adiru said:
I evulate SMEE based on its past technical expertise . Nope. more money and man power may not solve it. It could get stuck for the next 10years.
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That's not good logic. Every company made its first successful product at some point; nobody started out the leader in the field. And very few have national support like SMIC.
adiru said:
If Chinese officials use the buzzword EUV its a good sign.
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Of your ignorance.
adiru said:
Its going to take 10 more years to get it going
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Let's just say 100 or 1,000 years while we're making up random numbers, eh? LOL If SMEE makes it happen in less than 10 years, you should donate all your money to them in apology, how's that?
 
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A

adiru

Junior Member
Registered Member
manqiangrexue said:
Whenever I ask him for evidence, it's scientific scrutiny in the broad sense that all science is evidence-based. For his personal credentials, I'm not going to just assume everything he says about his interactions with top companies is true. If somebody who got fired multiple times told you he just happened to have all terrible bosses, you believe him? If someone told you he's smart enough to be a top Google engineer but Google was too stupid to hire him, you believe that? I have mental checks, and you don't. As long as someone's willing to be your friend, he's the smartest guy in the world to you.

That's not good logic. Every company made its first successful product at some point; nobody started out the leader in the field. And very few have national support like SMIC.

Of your ignorance.

Let's just say 100 or 1,000 years while we're making up random numbers, eh? LOL
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What science questions did you ask him specifically?
Can you list them?

So you can live with China incapable of making chips for the next 10 yrs?
If you are fine with that i am fine with that. At least we are at the same page.

So i dont expect you to jump up next time if someone says China cant do something.
 
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