German Airbus 320 Crash in the Alps

t2contra said:

The system is screwed up. His doctor should have been required to inform his employer since he is responsible for the lives of many people.

Click to expand...

True, but according to the company's the doctor checked him out to be okay and fit to fly. Something is up and we have to wait for further investigation.

delft said:

Let's look at the possibility that it was a deliberate action. I learned more that half a century ago that the wages of pilots were so very high because pilots shouldn't be worried about any thing but executing their work. Nowadays companies like German Wings safe money by paying much less than old fashioned companies like its mother Lufthansa. I read about a pilots living on the US East coast who flew on the West coast ( from LA IIRC ) for five days a week and then returned home for the weekend. While in LA he slept in a porta cabin beside an active runway because he couldn't pay for proper accommodation. There have been earlier allegation about pilots committing suicide by crashing aircraft with passengers, mostly disproved by the way, but there IIRC still suspicions about the Silk Air Boeing that crashed in a Sumatran river from a height of 10 km a few years ago.

A solution might be to re-establish proper norms for pilot pay and conditions. In general central banks are executing bizarre policies in order to achieve inflation while the old method is to increase wages. I remember that in 1963 angry collective wage negotiations in The Netherlands concerned wage increases would be 2.6% or 2.8% when the government decided the proper rate was 10% .....

Btw this is discussion in a thread that should contain any. Can this be moved to a separate thread?

Click to expand...

Back in the good old days, it would be rare to become a Commercial Airline Pilot, unless you had served quite a few years flying "Heavies" for the Air Force. It is true that the rise of Budget Aitlines flying highly automated Short Hall Airliners, has reduced the skill threshold quite considerably, although I believe you still need a lot of time and experience before they let anyone take control of a real Long Haul Jumbo.

The budget airlines, like to take on youngsters as apprentices and take about 2 years to train them up. It is true that when they become fully fledged, that they are expected to work long hours and get paid considerably less than the rates formally associated with the occupation.
The Airlines argue that these guys are paid to learn how to fly and that once they have paid off the investment to the Airline and gain considerable experience, that they will have a very valuable professional skill for life.

In that sense these young pilots are not dissimilar to Junior Doctors in the UK's NHS (no idea how it works in your country) with lots of work, responsibility and stress, long hours and relatively low pay, but the future prospect of earning untold riches in Gen Practice or as a Consultant.

The key word is relative for while the Budget airlines pay their newly qualifieds much less than the top Big Airline Pilots, it is still a much higher than average income than the vast majority of their age group.

The latest claim today is evidence that he was feeling a bit down. Well we all feel a bit down from time to time, especially after a busy time. The answer is to take a break and go somewhere for a rest. It does not equate with feeling suicidal or spur of the moment suicide/mass homicide.

I do find it galling that we everybody is content to plump for the most sensational and damning option before the enquiry has even begun. He has already been found guilty in trial by media and this is unlikely to be corrected, even if the evidence fails to support the claims.

So while it is clear that he was the only person in the Cockpit, there is so far nothing that proves that he was actually in control of the plane or in control of events.
I am also minded that this would not be the first time, that authority have been happy to scapegoat dead pilots in order to cover up other far more serious failings of their own.

I understand many pilots borrow the money to pay for achieving a commercial pilots licence and quite a few are unable to find a job in the industry and sometimes even end up flipping burgers for McDonald's. So even the budget airlines have no investments in their pilots.

Equation said:

True, but according to the company's the doctor checked him out to be okay and fit to fly. Something is up and we have to wait for further investigation.

Click to expand...

Well, if the co-pilot himself was supposed to be the liaison and he hid his doctor's real diagnosis from the airline that would explain the discrepancy.

SampanViking said:

...
I do find it galling that we everybody is content to plump for the most sensational and damning option before the enquiry has even begun. He has already been found guilty in trial by media and this is unlikely to be corrected, even if the evidence fails to support the claims.
...

Click to expand...

The thing is at this point there is evidence of the co-pilot hiding a medical condition that would prevent him from working from the airline, specifically for the day of the incident.

...
"Documents with medical contents were confiscated that point towards an existing illness and corresponding treatment by doctors," said the prosecutors' office in Duesseldorf, where the co-pilot lived and where the doomed flight from Barcelona was heading.

"The fact there are sick notes saying he was unable to work, among other things, that were found torn up, which were recent and even from the day of the crime, support the assumption based on the preliminary examination that the deceased hid his illness from his employer and his professional colleagues," the German prosecutors said.
...

Click to expand...

I understand where you are coming from and it may not be suicide, but it is not a stretch given what is known and his history of depression. It may be a bad combination of cold medication and alcohol and he fumbled this tragedy about, but that would be conjecture.

PanAsian said:

The thing is at this point there is evidence of the co-pilot hiding a medical condition that would prevent him from working from the airline, specifically for the day of the incident.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

I understand where you are coming from and it may not be suicide, but it is not a stretch given what is known and his history of depression. It may be a bad combination of cold medication and alcohol and he fumbled this tragedy about, but that would be conjecture.

Click to expand...

Well I think its heading in a more credible direction, especially if he was being medicated for the condition.
Taking meds on duty is I am sure a no no, and I am also aware that many substances can act far quicker and more intensely on the body at altitude, than at Sea Level.
A credible scenario would be, that he feels the need to take medication while flying. Maybe he was unused to the prescription or had up until that point been able to cope throughout a flight with a dose taken before take off.
He takes an opportunity to take another dose when he is left alone in the Cockpitt. As he does not wish his secret to be inadvertently discovered, he locks the cabin door and takes his pills.
Unfortunately, the effect at 40k ft is severe and fast and he is rendered unconscious. The door remains locked, he slumps forward onto the stick and knocks the plane into a dive.

Such a scenario would then be an accident, albeit with criminal negligence/culpability. It is though a very long way from a Homicidal maniac laughing diabolically and asking who is laughing now? which is the virtually cartoon image being sensationalised by the media.

SampanViking said:

Well I think its heading in a more credible direction, especially if he was being medicated for the condition.
Taking meds on duty is I am sure a no no, and I am also aware that many substances can act far quicker and more intensely on the body at altitude, than at Sea Level.
A credible scenario would be, that he feels the need to take medication while flying. Maybe he was unused to the prescription or had up until that point been able to cope throughout a flight with a dose taken before take off.
He takes an opportunity to take another dose when he is left alone in the Cockpitt. As he does not wish his secret to be inadvertently discovered, he locks the cabin door and takes his pills.
Unfortunately, the effect at 40k ft is severe and fast and he is rendered unconscious. The door remains locked, he slumps forward onto the stick and knocks the plane into a dive.

Such a scenario would then be an accident, albeit with criminal negligence/culpability. It is though a very long way from a Homicidal maniac laughing diabolically and asking who is laughing now? which is the virtually cartoon image being sensationalised by the media.

Click to expand...

Personally I think it is exactly what the reports claimed them to be which is deliberate. For the situation your describe to occur he had to disengaged AP, numerous other functions and the aircraft would've gone into a deep dive and not a controlled descent into the mountains like what the radar showed.
The way the aircraft slammed into the mountain, it was definitely flown by someone who was concious.

I'm tending towards that he is intending on crashing the plane, but want to spend the final few minutes enjoying his last reminiscent ride.

no_name said:

I'm tending towards that he is intending on crashing the plane, but want to spend the final few minutes enjoying his last reminiscent ride.

Click to expand...

He could've done that with flying a private plane without taking hundreds of lives with him.