Future Aircraft Carrier Thread; Designs, Ideas, Brainstorms

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Re: Future Aircraft Carrier Thread; Desings, Ideas, Brainstorms

I presume a submersible aircraft carrier of the future would be big enough to carry large Swimmer Delivery Vehicles
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with maybe a battalion of commandos to seize an enemy port, for example, with the air wing providing the aerial support!
Well, the ones I was proposing were basically a submersible replacement for the LHD function and the CVN function.

The well deck on the LHD submarine could certainly accommodate what you mention, but they would have been designed to send LCACs and LCUs to the beach, with helicopters launching from the deck and carrying Marines in air assault.

The Ohio SSGNs, the USS Jimmy Carter (3rd Sea wolf) and the Virginia class are all designed with the appropriate chambers and capabilities to carry the newest SEAL swimmer delivery vehicles. So in my scenario, if teams had to go in in advance of these larger assault operations, they could be launched by the other SSNs with the TF.

Otherwise, those types of clandestine operations would be conducted in any case as individual, smaller operations...and in fact are conducted today.
 
Re: Future Aircraft Carrier Thread; Desings, Ideas, Brainstorms

...

Otherwise, those types of clandestine operations would be conducted in any case as individual, smaller operations...and in fact are conducted today.

Yet another option would be to come to the shore as close as possible and send the troops in some bigger version(s) of
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(I don't mean it as an ad of that particular company! :)
 

shen

Senior Member
Re: Future Aircraft Carrier Thread; Desings, Ideas, Brainstorms

how about a large number of Burke sized ship following the design of USS Independence? Stealthy, no 40kt speed requirement, full Aegis combat system or its follow-on system, around 50 organic VLS, flexible deck that can either accommodate an additional 100 VLS or allow 20+ combat UAVs to be carried and operated. Is something like this possible in a ship the size of Burke? Group a bunch of them together to form powerful combat group, but each ship is not very expensive and not all the eggs in one basket.
 

shen

Senior Member
Re: Future Aircraft Carrier Thread; Desings, Ideas, Brainstorms

Not exactly a carrier though.

Well, a mini carrier:D
A smaller, less expensive ship, more stealthy and better able to defend itself. But the real offensive weapons are UAVs. The flexible deck normally function as aviation facilities, but can also be quickly converted for other missions.
 
Re: Future Aircraft Carrier Thread; Desings, Ideas, Brainstorms

... Group a bunch of them together to form powerful combat group, but each ship is not very expensive and not all the eggs in one basket.

I've read (years ago and I don't remember where :-( but the source was credible) that after the First World War there were considerations whether a navy (not just the US Navy) should build, for example, two huge carriers, 90 planes each, or spread those 180 airplanes over six small carriers; the conclusion back then was to operate a smaller number of bigger carriers so that their air strikes are powerful enough to defeat an enemy. I'm not sure if this conclusion was correct :) (just consider the importance of escort aircraft carriers during WW2) and I wonder what it would be here, I mean if to use, for example, 100 drones at once, attacking all over, but just from one top-notch submersible carrier, OR hit from five ships (of a design suggested by shen), 20 machines each ...?
 

shen

Senior Member
Re: Future Aircraft Carrier Thread; Desings, Ideas, Brainstorms

its exactly classification is not important. the goal is to design a warship with significant aviation facility, but more survivable than current generation of carriers. one route is the submarine route. but I think there is significant problems with that direction. large submarines are unwieldy boats. I-400s were very poor submarines, unmanageable, slow to dive, big active sonar target, and they carried very few aircraft. the largest modern submarines are the Typhoon class. Which were also found to be too big and unwieldy in operation and the concept was drop in followup class of Russian subs. Another problem with the submarine carrier idea is that a big part of modern nuclear submarines survivability is because they stay submerged all the time. if the submarine carrier have to surface to conduct air operation, how is it survivable. and a big submarine carrier is likely to be a very slow diver and a big active sonar target.
a different way to design a more survivable carrier to a smaller stealthy surface ship with significant self defense capabilities. I wish I can draw a good picture, but I'll describe what I have in mind as best as I can. It should be a catamaran with full length flight deck, to give it plenty of deck space and internal space, as well as good sea keeping characteristics. It should be around 10,000 tons and ideally stealthy. It should have a full AD sensor and weapon suite at least equal to Aegis in capability if not better. The 50 organic VLS should similar to Mk 57, spread around the sides of the ship, leaving the flight deck unobstructed. A big opening in the flight deck with retracted doors. When a doors are closed, the flight deck is unobstructed. But the hangar space below that opening can be loaded with an additional 100 VLS when the mission requires long range missile strike. When not loaded with the addtional VLS modules, the hangar should have space for around 20 combat UAVs. A flight wing should include Global Hawk type capable of long endurance surveillance, a different variation optimized for ASW, then a fast stealthy type similar to X-47 capable of strike as well as interception.
This is an anti-capital ship. with emphasis on flexibility and affordability. individually it may not be very strong, but when grouped together, the formation should be able to performance all the missions of a carrier battle group and more.
 

Kurt

Junior Member
Re: Future Aircraft Carrier Thread; Desings, Ideas, Brainstorms

I'm not buying into a submersible supercarrier that can't immediately fly sorties upon detection.
A SSGN replacement with UAV bombers instead of cruise missiles sounds like a solution that pays off.
This system is integrated with reconnaisance ground forces that mark the targets for precise strikes and might benefit from aerial delivery and resupply via the same infrastructure that delivers the bombs.

The Soviets had their amphibious submarine concepts. Such vessels need very shallow diving depth and must switch to hovercraft mode for the final sprint out of the surf. Such a vessel does not need to dive deep and is thus only a cheap shallow water submersible hovercraft. Take the Zubr and make it dive a few meters.
nk1232zubr3.jpg
 
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