FFG 054/054A Thread

[Jeff Head]

So far I have not heard of any more. But the current stock of ordered engines can still cover at least two more ships. In addition there is another order for 12 engines, which means another six ships. The engines are licensed made in China, but for every one made, the French would know about it. A similar case can be made for the Germans and the engines for the Yuan class submarines.

Thanks. I knew there were some engines still to be accounted for and that another order was pending, but did not know how big that order was. But doesn't the Type 054A use 4 of these engines? Wouldn't that follow on order have to be for 24 engines to allow for 6 more units to be built?

If so, altogether that would make 12 of the Type 054A design, if they choose to go that route, which I believe they will.

As quickly as they produced these first four, I can see them producing the other eight in a 2-3 year time frame at the two shipyards once they resume construction.

 

[crobato]

The second order was supposed to be for 24 engines. So that makes 6 more ships, so yes a total of 12. What I don't really know is that whether all these ships will be exactly the same. My guess is that the next two may have some evolving changes. If they started to do that, there might be some slowdown in production.

 

[tphuang]

Thanks. I knew there were some engines still to be accounted for and that another order was pending, but did not know how big that order was. But doesn't the Type 054A use 4 of these engines? Wouldn't that follow on order have to be for 24 engines to allow for 6 more units to be built?

If so, altogether that would make 12 of the Type 054A design, if they choose to go that route, which I believe they will.

As quickly as they produced these first four, I can see them producing the other eight in a 2-3 year time frame at the two shipyards once they resume construction.

hard to say how this really is going, I guess the one that we speculated to be 054A in HP isn't that after all. and adeptitus posted some interesting speculations on what propulsions could be like for 054 and 054A. I'd be interested in seeing whether or not they have any SEMPtick engines left. Although, it appears that the next generation will be also use QC-185 in a CODOG configuration.

this I found somewhere, a news item released from Shanghai science and technology school?

568号舰顺利下水。
　　 经过对下水舰准确的重量重心计算以及包括潮位选取，承载设备、下水状态等技术问题全面的分析计算后， 5月23日早上5点40分，伴随着一阵阵轰隆声和爆竹声，七○一所上海分部设计的568号舰顺利下水。

basically saying ship 568 was launched on May 23rd, so I guess that's the pennant for the 2nd 054A from HD

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[adeptitus]

hard to say how this really is going, I guess the one that we speculated to be 054A in HP isn't that after all. and adeptitus posted some interesting speculations on what propulsions could be like for 054 and 054A. I'd be interested in seeing whether or not they have any SEMPtick engines left. Although, it appears that the next generation will be also use QC-185 in a CODOG configuration.

After some research on the web, I'm leaning toward the following:

In April 2002, the Franco-German company SEMT Pielstick announced that 8 x 16 PA6 STC engines will equip the first two frigates of a new generation to be built in Shanghai. The 16 cylinder PA6 STC will be manufactured under a license agreement by Shaanxi Diesel Engine Works.


Each of the 054 was probably equipped with 4 x 16 PA6 STC engines, build by Shaanxi Diesel under license. It doesn't make sense to me that they'd change the propulsion layout from La Fayette design to add 2 additional MTU diesels?

 

[tphuang]

After some research on the web, I'm leaning toward the following:

In April 2002, the Franco-German company SEMT Pielstick announced that 8 x 16 PA6 STC engines will equip the first two frigates of a new generation to be built in Shanghai. The 16 cylinder PA6 STC will be manufactured under a license agreement by Shaanxi Diesel Engine Works.


Each of the 054 was probably equipped with 4 x 16 PA6 STC engines, build by Shaanxi Diesel under license. It doesn't make sense to me that they'd change the propulsion layout from La Fayette design to add 2 additional MTU diesels?

I would say so too, otherwise, 054 would become the first frigate to use 6 large diesel engines.

found a new photo of 891. It's really PSed, but has some good stuff too. Shows at least 3 different VLS module. The one on 054A, 052C and another one that has been on there for ever. Maybe even more, but I can't see anything for sure. Also, shows the sensor behind the one that I suspect to be the next MFD. I think it could be used to be the next generation OTH surface search radar, just a guess.

 

[Pointblank]

I still see no space for a towed variable depth sonar or hydrophone array... no hole in the stern, no cut out transom, no nothing. Just a hull mounted sonar. For what is supposed to be a multi-role frigate, this is a severe weakness in the capability of the ship to defend itself and carry out anti-submarine warfare. I am starting to worry if the Chinese don't place a strong emphasis on ASW, as it could really come back and bite them.

Edit: For example, like this:
Towed hydrophone array (the black circle on the right hand side of the stern)

Towed active variable depth sonars:
Iroquois class destroyer

Luhu class destroyer VDS:

I see no rear openings that would indicate a towed sonar array or hydrophone.

 

[Diving Falcon]

I think it's more of a growth process...the initial Type-054 did not have VLS and I imagine inferior electronics, sensors, radar, etc, compared to the Type-054A. I think Type-054B will likely be a solid multi-mission frigate with ASW capability in the form of the latest Yu-7 variant.

Though I wonder...with added systems and what not, will Type-054B have a larger displacement than Type-054A?...could the Type-054B reach 4500 tons?

 

[tphuang]

Well, the issue with TAS is more of a doctrinal issue than anything else. We've seen TLAS for export and articles about TAS being available in the early 2000s. What we can say is that 054A has bowed mounted sonar and hull mounted sonar, which is probably enough in the littoral waters, but not enough for blue water operations. It seems that China believes more in relying on helos and nuclear subs for ASW in blue water operations. Remember, 054A is not expected to operate by itself. It's main utility is AAW.

As for 054B, we will all have to wait and see. I'm pretty sure displacement will increase quite a bit since its propulsion will be CODOG rather than CODAD. Whether or not that will include TAS and/or VLS for AShM/ASROC is yet to be seen.

 

[Diving Falcon]

Well, the issue with TAS is more of a doctrinal issue than anything else. We've seen TLAS for export and articles about TAS being available in the early 2000s. What we can say is that 054A has bowed mounted sonar and hull mounted sonar, which is probably enough in the littoral waters, but not enough for blue water operations. It seems that China believes more in relying on helos and nuclear subs for ASW in blue water operations. Remember, 054A is not expected to operate by itself. It's main utility is AAW.

As for 054B, we will all have to wait and see. I'm pretty sure displacement will increase quite a bit since its propulsion will be CODOG rather than CODAD. Whether or not that will include TAS and/or VLS for AShM/ASROC is yet to be seen.

tphuang,

Is it possible for the Type-054-series to have more than 32 VLS tubes in possibly larger and more multi-mission oriented variants? Is there possibility for VL-ASROC?

 

[tphuang]

tphuang,

Is it possible for the Type-054-series to have more than 32 VLS tubes in possibly larger and more multi-mission oriented variants? Is there possibility for VL-ASROC?

They would have to be moving toward that direction. Especially where the YJ-83s are located right now, they should be able to put a VLS there, that's where a lot of newer stealthier ships put their VLS for AShM/ASROC.