Nevermind you misrepresented my position in the first place. I never said overseas Chinese do not act in China's interest, I take issue with your apparent claim that they all do.
You quoted one man who acted in China's interest. It would only matter if I claim no Chinese ever do (you know, mathematical logic?). I made no such claim. It certainly would not prove that all overseas Chinese (in general), do.
Okay dude, here's what I originally wrote:
Where does that say "overseas Chinese will always act in China's interests"?
You talk about evidence? I have given you plenty of evidence to support the above statement. However, you seem to be under the impression that I claimed that overseas Chinese are a monolithic Borg-like entity acting toward the best interests of the mothership.
Well, if you chose to understand it that way, that's your failing.
How about you tell me what you mean by this:
3) If you think overseas Chinese are not interested in defending Chinese interests, then you've obviously never read Chinese newspapers during the Tibet riots, or heard about the March 29 rallies, seen the nigh-unanimous support for the Beijing olympics, or the out-pouring of contributions for the Sichuan Earthquake.
In response to this:
4) Even if they retain 'Chinese culture' for some reason, what does that mean? Does that mean they'll act in China's interest against their adoptive homelands? Fat chance.
In retrospect, I can see how I misinterpreted your comment. If your claim is that some overseas Chinese do indeed act in China's interest, then I have nothing further to add and is in agreement.
Cutting through this gigantic mess, let me summarise this rather unfortunate exchange:
- You contend that Chinese can promote China's interest overseas more than they can at home
Here's the quote I quoted initially:
That makes no sense. Vesicles isn't generalizing, you are. When you dispute his statement, you are basically saying that wanting to stay in the US (or other foreign country) is a bad thing for a Chinese. That's a hell of a generalization.
Overseas Chinese have every reason to be proud of their choice. They can do much more for China overseas than they can back in China. In fact, there is a well-known adage among overseas Chinese: "You only understand patriotism once you leave your homeland."
Believe me when I say there is NO shortage of smart and capable people in China, and unless you possess expertise in cutting edge technology that does not exist in China, the only thing you'll be doing when you go back to China is to compete with other Chinese for a job.
On the other hand, if you stay overseas, you will be able to promote Chinese culture, values, and interests. Even if such contributions may be small and indirect, they are still more than you could ever do if you stayed in China.
Emphasis mine.
I took issue with this for the following reasons:
1) It seems to suggest that they can be proud of their choice since they can do more for China.
2) They are patriotic
3) They
will be able to promote China's interests, culture, etc.
4) China does not need them except in cutting edge cases
I did so because:
1) As in point 1 and 5 of my reply, I strongly question that they can do more for China.
2) It's a generalisation, and it is almost certainly untrue. As I said in points 2-4 in the original reply, Chinese emigrants don't do so for patriotic reasons in general, like all emigrants; and that whatever THEIR reasons were, the effect certainly won't last beyond a generation or two
3) I'll agree that they'll increase exposure to Chinese culture, values, and interests. I strongly disagree that they'll promote them.
4) I do not believe that to be true as stated in point 5 and later replies.
We then talked at cross purposes at great length.
Summarising the position, I'll say this:
1) We'll simply have to disagree on that. You've listed at some length some overseas Chinese who acted in China's interest. I've listed at similar length many who don't. Neither of this addresses the question of doing more for China while overseas. I don't see how one can either, without having some sort of control group of what would happen if they returned to China instead.
However, you made the claim that they can do
more for China. the burden is on you not only to prove that they can do something for China, but that they can do more than if they return. I don't believe you have succeeded in demonstrating that.
2) I don't believe patriotism is the primary motivation. Nothing suggests the Chinese emigrant emigrates for reasons different from teh majority of emigrants in history.
3) I question this. I have cited examles where a presence of an overseas Chinese community had indeed not promoted Chinese culture, values and history, but caused an anti-Chinese backlash. I agree that one
may so promote, but you said
will. If you meant may, then there is no disagreement and I misconstrued your words.
4) I have some evidence to suggest that China does indeed need them as China is facing skilled manpower crisis, as evidenced by the fact that Chinese firms are indeed importing a lot of skilled, professional and managerial labour. Let me clarify that it has nothing to do with whether China has smart people or not. In order to run a strong, innovative and dynamic society, you pretty much always need more talent than you can get just from yourself, that's why America accepted a lot of foreign talent, it's not because America lacks smart people (your milage may vary there...).
