F22 export ban lifted

Coolien

So I think we agree on this? Japan gets the Raptor if it wants it. A most deserving country!

coolieno99 said:

Japan already has many of the F-22's technologies. Japan had the AESA radar since the mid-1990's. Japan is one of the leader in using composite materials in aircraft manufacturing(the new Boeing 787 passenger airline composite wings are being made in Japan). The autoclaves use in curing the composite parts are made in Japan. Japan has been applying radar absorbent materials since the mid-1990's. So there's very little technology lost when selling F-22s to Japan.:coffee:

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you really can't compare the Japanese AESA radar on F-2 with any of the other AESA radars being developed. The Japanese has great technology which allowed them to produce T/R modules cheaply. But the actually capability of the F-2 radar is less than most of the advanced slotted array radar today. Same with composite materials and RAM. Yes, Japan has them, but they are nowhere near the level in quality as the F-22.

The_Zergling said:

South Korea probably won't be getting them anytime soon either, and probably for similiar reasons. Should unification ever happen I don't see Korea being very friendly with the US either. Basically they're not going to sell to anyone if there's a chance that it could fall into "enemy" (China, Iran, Russia, etc) hands.

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I don't think South Korea could even afford it considering they're buying the F-15Ks and F-35s. I doubt unfication will happen anytime soon anyway.

Sea Dog said:

I think you're right. Israel is not a likely copntender to get them. Think UK, Japan, and possibly Australia. And that's about it. At any rate, the Israeli's have learned their lessons I think. Israel transferred China technology for Harpy missiles. China proliferates to the Middle East. And now Iran has an identical missile to use against Israel. Oh, the irony. The Israeli's made a mistake, but they ain't stupid.

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Do you have any sources for this? When did China proliferate Harpy technology to the Middle East?

When did Iran get a Harpy missile? This all sounds to me like

tphuang said:

you really can't compare the Japanese AESA radar on F-2 with any of the other AESA radars being developed. The Japanese has great technology which allowed them to produce T/R modules cheaply. But the actually capability of the F-2 radar is less than most of the advanced slotted array radar today. Same with composite materials and RAM. Yes, Japan has them, but they are nowhere near the level in quality as the F-22.

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Japan is very strong in the area of copying and improving, but original designs are still quite lacking (except in few areas). The F-2 was "jointly developed" by US and Japan, but in pratice it was basically an enlarged F-16 C/D block 40, with about $4 .1 billion USD paid to the US for licensed technologies in "workshare" agreement. Considering that only 90 F-2s will be produced, that's about $45 million per aircraft paid to the US, plus $63 million per aircraft in domestic production cost. $_$

It'd have been cheaper to buy off the shelf F-15 and F-16s, but one could also argue that it was the high price paid to obtain US technology legally (and without subsidies like Israel) to improve your domestic aerospace sector. The F-2's AESA radar is most likely built with licensed technology from the US, I don't think Mitsubishi Electronics Corp developed it independently. So that's a bundle of $ cash paid to the US, and most likely "downgraded" technology too.

Due to constitutional restrictions, Japan's military has to adopt a "defensive posture". Sometimes this leads to silly situations like naming its anti-ship missiles "anti-landing craft missiles". But it does lead to things like, no equipping their ships with LACM's (no Tomahawks), and the F-2 has no inflight refueling system for long-ranged strike missions.

Japan has expressed interest in purchasing the F-22, however if the aircraft is actually "sold", you can bet that it'd be a downgraded version, with systems such as the air-to-ground capability reduced (as on F-15J), and Japan would prolly attempt to pay billions of dollars to produce (or assemble) the aircraft locally. If the deal is approved, it'd stir up controversy in the US on "selling the farm". hehe.

I vaguely remember reading somewhere before (can't remember where) that Britain had an order for some F-22's but where seriously considering cancelling due to the fact that the Pentagon will not release certain operational codes for the planes.

What this basically means is that even though you have paid for the planes (and therefore own them) you cannot use the full capability of the planes unless they're used in engagements 'approved' by the Pentagon - even if you are an allied as close as Britain.

Can anyone clear this situation up? How will this policy (if true) affect nations planning to buy the F-22?

It (if true) will cause all manner of problems, that is for sure. What's the point of having the thing if you can't use it to the fullest extent of it's capabilities? So no-one will want to import it and the U.S will end up loosing alot of potential money.

Cygnus X-1 said:

I vaguely remember reading somewhere before (can't remember where) that Britain had an order for some F-22's but where seriously considering cancelling due to the fact that the Pentagon will not release certain operational codes for the planes.

What this basically means is that even though you have paid for the planes (and therefore own them) you cannot use the full capability of the planes unless they're used in engagements 'approved' by the Pentagon - even if you are an allied as close as Britain.

Can anyone clear this situation up? How will this policy (if true) affect nations planning to buy the F-22?

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That fuss is actually about the F-35 not the F-22.



Anyway, New Zealand has a fighter need....

I doubt that South Korea will recieve the F-22 even if it asked for it. South Korea is drifting into China's orbit.

Anyway, I think that we can expect Britain to get their hands on F-22s if they ask for them, Japan and possibly Canada. Although I doubt that Canada would need or ask for them. Selling the F-22 to Japan would be a mistake for the US. It would go along way to sparking an arms race with China and maybe South Korea, something that the US does not want. Of course, it would be very profitable for US defense companies, so maybe it will happen (the arms race/F-22 sale) even though it is not in the US's best interest.

Britain probably would be on the approved list for the F-22, but won't order them. It would mean having to sell all our Typhoons to pay for them and we wouldn't get 1 F-22 in return for each Typhoon disposed of, so don't hold your breathe.