F-35 Joint Strike Fighter News, Videos and pics Thread

[Air Force Brat]

@kwaigonegin

At the end of the day, the F-35 is a high-risk project and rather expensive, vindicated only by its mass production (it'll be comparable in price to AESA Super Hornets and cheaper than Eurofighters due to batch manufacturing) and subsystems. It's a highly-flawed program that will give the Chinese and Russians the opportunity to gain air superiority over the West until the end of this generation, but it's the jet that ate the Pentagon; it's too big to cancel.

I am looking forward to, and far less dismissive of, next generation US fighters, however.

ALL FIFTH GEN AIRCRAFT ARE HIGH RISK-----The PAK-FA has suffered a serious engine fire which destroyed a prototype, (which was rebuilt using the cannibalized fuselage/wing juncture of 6-1. In addition each of the early prototypes had extensive cracking and weakness in the aft fuselage among other places-so the redesigned and strengthened 6-2 is scheduled to fly any day.

Of course the Chinese don't tell us any of these things but the J-20 was extensively redesigned after 2001,-2002, and while there was a rumor of some cracking, there was no evidence to support that?? so who knows??

As to your assertion that you are waiting on the six-Gen, there ain't no such thing, and the USAF made it clear recently that any, and I do mean any Six Gen is 20- to 30 years out, as I have been stating since joining these forums, the LRSB will suck the life out of six gen development.

As to your assertion that Chinese and Russian airpower will dominate USAF, Navy, and Marine aircraft, you further alienate yourself from this present world??? really!

 

[dtulsa]

I'm afraid that any and all present and future weapons will be totally unaffordable and thus useable in conflict as losing one in conflict would be to costly

 

[Jeff Head]

I'm afraid that any and all present and future weapons will be totally unaffordable and thus useable in conflict as losing one in conflict would be to costly

Likely not. The US is going to build and maintain the largest Naval Fleet and Air force...and they will have aircraft to use against potential adversaries who themselves are having to spend more to stay competitive.

In some areas, the high tech is actually getting cheaper...the Rail Guns for example will be less expensive than current capabilities, particularly for SAM.

Same with the Lasers.

I expect the US will not repeat the foolish mistake of only building a relative few air superiority aircraft. depends on the elections though. We shall see.

With the F-35 you are going to end up with about 3,000 aircraft for the US...that's a large number and it is already reflecting on the overall price just as we predicted years ago on this forum.

Having a 5th gen, stealth, strike aircraft like the F-35 with its sensor capabilities is going to be a huge plus and game changer for any force that fields them.

Imagine...now off of LHAs and LHDs you will have supersonic stealth strike aircraft to support the Marines. No disrespect to the Harriers...they have been great over a long history...but the F-35B is going to up that game very significantly.

 

[dtulsa]

Unrelated but if we lost say 4-5 B2 and say 30-50 F22 would that not put a substantial dent in our overall defense capability and I'm not talking about combat only just maintenance them accidents etc.

 

[dtulsa]

The numbers just aren't there to absorb a large loss of aircraft not due to capability but due to political and budget conditions

 

[Inst]

@AFB:

US Sixth gens are scheduled for the 2025-2030 timeframe. That's hardly 30 years out, you know.

As to high risk 5th gen programs; it is true that most aircraft manufacturers have problems with their 5th gen projects, but the United States used exactly the same manufacturer for its second 5th generation fighter as its first-generation fighter, yet the F-35B was a full five years late, originally being specced for 2010, and its subsystems are still not mature; until later upgrades the F-35B won't even have a gun. The X-35 won over the X-32 in 2001, yet it took 14 years to reach IOC from the initial approval, even longer if you consider its first flight. Compare it to the J-20, which is expected to IOC either late this year or next year, and which took its first flight in 2011.

The main problem with the JSF program was not simply that they wanted one plane for 3 services, but that the JSF program was built concurrently. A rush attempt to get the F-35A into the air first, then developing the F-35B and F-35C as derivatives, would have performed better in that the majority of the bugs could have been wrinkled out with the F-35A project, with the F-35B and F-35C having less developmental problems as a result, and the F-35A could have been finished much faster than by developing all three aircraft at the same time. As a result of concurrency, however, the F-35 development project was behind schedule and overbudget.

Regarding whether the Russians and the Chinese could obtain air superiority over the F-35; the problem, once again, is in the subsystems. The PAK-FA, while somewhat less stealthy than the F-35 (and according to the open source RCS simulations, it's reasonably stealthy), has IRST functioning akin to the F-35, as well as greater speed and range. The J-20 has EODAS, and if you calculate from the J-11D's AESA, has a radar that is 12.5% less efficient in terms of total range, but outranges the F-35.

Ultimately, however, the game falls down to the E-2D and corresponding Russian and Chinese AEW&C. The Russians have anti-AEW&C missiles in the Novator and similar missiles, and the PAK-FA is designed specifically for them, and the Chinese have the PL-21. The F-35 has the Meteor, but that's not American to begin with, and while efficient and agile, it is not a true interceptor missile. If the PAK-FA or J-20 can knock out the E-2D beyond tracking range, while protecting their own AEW&C systems, the F-35 is now at a distinct disadvantage.

Nonetheless, please do note that I have said that the Russians and Chinese COULD obtain air dominance because of the F-35. The F-35 still has advantages, and the Russians and Chinese would have to invest both in the training and the numbers needed to bypass the F-35's advantage. But if they do have that, and they manage to knock out the F-35's AEW&C, the F-35's kinematic disadvantages mean that it is dead meat.

 

[Air Force Brat]

@AFB:

US Sixth gens are scheduled for the 2025-2030 timeframe. That's hardly 30 years out, you know.

As to high risk 5th gen programs; it is true that most aircraft manufacturers have problems with their 5th gen projects, but the United States used exactly the same manufacturer for its second 5th generation fighter as its first-generation fighter, yet the F-35B was a full five years late, originally being specced for 2010, and its subsystems are still not mature; until later upgrades the F-35B won't even have a gun. The X-35 won over the X-32 in 2001, yet it took 14 years to reach IOC from the initial approval, even longer if you consider its first flight. Compare it to the J-20, which is expected to IOC either late this year or next year, and which took its first flight in 2011.

The main problem with the JSF program was not simply that they wanted one plane for 3 services, but that the JSF program was built concurrently. A rush attempt to get the F-35A into the air first, then developing the F-35B and F-35C as derivatives, would have performed better in that the majority of the bugs could have been wrinkled out with the F-35A project, with the F-35B and F-35C having less developmental problems as a result, and the F-35A could have been finished much faster than by developing all three aircraft at the same time. As a result of concurrency, however, the F-35 development project was behind schedule and overbudget.

Regarding whether the Russians and the Chinese could obtain air superiority over the F-35; the problem, once again, is in the subsystems. The PAK-FA, while somewhat less stealthy than the F-35 (and according to the open source RCS simulations, it's reasonably stealthy), has IRST functioning akin to the F-35, as well as greater speed and range. The J-20 has EODAS, and if you calculate from the J-11D's AESA, has a radar that is 12.5% less efficient in terms of total range, but outranges the F-35.

Ultimately, however, the game falls down to the E-2D and corresponding Russian and Chinese AEW&C. The Russians have anti-AEW&C missiles in the Novator and similar missiles, and the PAK-FA is designed specifically for them, and the Chinese have the PL-21. The F-35 has the Meteor, but that's not American to begin with, and while efficient and agile, it is not a true interceptor missile. If the PAK-FA or J-20 can knock out the E-2D beyond tracking range, while protecting their own AEW&C systems, the F-35 is now at a distinct disadvantage.

Nonetheless, please do note that I have said that the Russians and Chinese COULD obtain air dominance because of the F-35. The F-35 still has advantages, and the Russians and Chinese would have to invest both in the training and the numbers needed to bypass the F-35's advantage. But if they do have that, and they manage to knock out the F-35's AEW&C, the F-35's kinematic disadvantages mean that it is dead meat.

Actually you need to up your research, at the recent AFA symposium on Air Power it was revealed that there is NO 6th gen design criteria, and that rather than try to develop new capabilities concurrently, the USAF would be upgrading both F-35 and F-22s, as well a 4 + gen aircraft. This is the main reason that the Head of the HASC has directed Sec James to explore and report exactly what would be involved in returning the F-22 to full production.

While I had reservations and concerns initially about concurrency, it has nearly 200 F-35s currently airworthy, and more rolling off the line with great regularity, in contrast to both China and Russia at 10 and 5 aircraft respectively??? you tell me who's on the right track.

As to the Russians or the Chinese being technologically at parity or ahead of the West, here again, there in NO basis in fact to make such a statement, simply NO. I agree that both Russia and China are working to achieve parity, but that is very unlikely in the near-time?? and will depend on a major collapse economically and other-wise in the West? while the Russians and Chinese have some type of miraculous good fortune???

The F-35 is technologically superior, and its flying qualities are outstanding indeed, while PAK-FA may be faster??? it is agile, but its weapons and systems in general are NOT on par with the F-35. If given a choice of any of the three aircraft named, the obvious choice for your own survival and winning would have to be the F-35.

 

[Jeff Head]

While I had reservations and concerns initially about concurrency, it has nearly 200 F-35s currently airworthy, and more rolling off the line with great regularity...

My most recent check showed the following aircraft having been ordered and at some stage of production:

USAF - 110
USMC - 61
USN --- 27
UK - 10
Italy - 8
Japan - 4
Norway - 4
Australia - 2
Netherlands - 2

This is 198 US Aircraft and 32 foreign aircraft, or 230 ordered and in queue.

Of these the following have actually been delivered:

USAF - 91
USMC - 55
USN --- 21
UK - 3
Italy - 3
Australia - 2
Netherlands - 2
Norway - 2

That's 167 US Aircraft and 12 Foreign aircraft, or a total of 179 aircraft.

And the beat goes on.

So, with the 187 operational F-22s, the US now has a total of 344 operational 5th generation aircraft of its own.

 

[Brumby]

Marines Not Affected By F-35 Radar Reset Software Glitch; Fielding Still On Track

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

The Marine Corps has not been affected by a software glitch that left the F-35 Joint Strike Fighters with radar resets and other software stability issues, the Marines’ top aviator told the Senate last week.

The Marines are flying both an older 2B software version and the new 3I software, but the software problem resides in a 3I software update that the Marines never loaded, Deputy Commandant of the Marine Corps for Aviation Lt. Gen. Jon Davis told the Senate Armed Services seapower committee on April 20.

“The last iteration of the 3I software that we’ve had stability problems with – we didn’t load that. So we’re not having those problems in the Marine Corps right now,” Davis said.
“So we’re operating 2B, 3I, and we’re not having the radar resets and problems that they’ve seen with the latest software load. So we’re tracking, doing very well with that (earlier) software load and flying the airplane really well.”

The software stability problem primarily affects the radar, Commander of Naval Air Forces Command (NAVAIR) Vice Adm. Paul Grosklags said at the hearing, but because the F-35 is so integrated the glitch’s affect spans beyond the radar.

“We’re seeing system resets, system anomalies much more often than we could accept,” Grosklags said.
“So [Air Force Lt. Gen. Christopher] Bogdan, the [JSF] program executive, took a step back, he chartered a red team to take a deep dive at some of these issues because he wanted to make sure that we nailed down the problems on 3I and not wait until 3F, which is the final fleet release for the Navy and for all the services once we get through operational test. We believe based on information and testing that’s been completed very recently and that’s continuing through the end of the month that the majority of the software stability issues have been resolved. We still have a few flights to verify that to ourselves, but we seem to be on a good path.”

Grosklags added that, while a pause in 3F software development to await the resolution of the 3I problems was a “prudent step” for Bogdan to take, the fielding of 3F software – set for 2017 – will be delayed by a few months. For the Marine Corps, the current 2B software is already sufficient to handle high-end threats while using stealth capability and internally carried weapons, Davis has told USNI News previously, but the 3F software will bring the ability to carry and fire weapons from external weapons pylons, among other upgrades included in the planned software package.

Davis said during the hearing that, despite problems elsewhere in the Joint Strike Fighter program, the Marines are having a good time fielding the plane and training new pilots. Current F-35B squadrons, Marine Fighter Attack Squadron (VMFA-121) and training squadron VMFA-T 501, are hard at work, and the Marines will set up a second operational squadron, VMFA-211, in June.

“The popularity of the program – we’ve got a lot of captains and majors and lieutenants that are signing up to fly the airplane, and right now of all the Marine Corps flying assets that we have out there, the guys that are making their flight hours is the F-35 program,” he said, referencing a readiness shortfall plaguing other older Marine aviation platforms.
“So they’re tracking, they’re getting good training. In fact, the first three students are going through the [Weapons and Tactics Instructor] class in Yuma, Ariz., right now and bringing that fifth-generation capability to the Marine Air-Ground Task Force in a big way.”

 

[dtulsa]

Not arguing with the marines they surely need new birds what worries me is the other versions for the air force and navy the marines primary mission has been close air support for jarheads on the ground