F-22 Raptor Thread
- Thread starter Jeff Head
- Start date
Technicaly completely possible restarting F-22 production line, build engines, machine Tools in a US Army depot and i have the key in more :=) jocking ofc for it
Butand some say a very bad idea, USAF must, need going for 6th generation more capable in 2030, coz at that time F-22 and even new updated are less capable vs new rivals.
That's the message, there is not going to be a six gen in 2030, why the F-35 and F-22 upgrades are critical, and more Raptors make more sense.
I actually wouldn't put it past him.
kwaigonegin
Colonel
Well the F35 is slated to replace almost all of the teen series in the next couple of decades but I do see your point. The unfortunate news is aircraft have become so incredibly expensive that only very very few new models will come online and they will be produce in just a tiny handful of nations. Gone are the good old days of the 60s/70s.. Basically the golden age of combat jet aircraft where you have so many great fighters/bombers coming online from so many different great companies.
It's part of the world we live in and society in general. An engineer from cal tech or MIT today would rather work at Google or Facebook unlike his father or grandfather before him who would rather work for Lockheed, McDonald Douglas etc. I'm sure the same is likely true many countries as well
Brumby
Major
The conversation around a F-22 re-start vs. 6th gen needs to be anchored around a key consideration and that is what will be the likely battlespace in the 2030-2050 timeframe. Whilst the requirements are yet to be defined (at least officially), there are emerging ideas on what are important technological attributes. There are at least three I have observed as being advocated :
(a) spectrum domination;
(b) laser; and
(c) human and machine pairing
There seems to be presently tension in pathway between platform centric development vs systems centric development. Should the latter philosophy prevails (and I am a believer in it), then the notion of 6th gen. will cease to exist as we are accustomed to its meaning. Such a departure in traditional thinking is because each generation has a defining technological feature as with stealth is to 5th generation. Stealth by nature is achieved through shaping and supplemented by radar absorbing materials. As such, platform development dominates. However we also are seeing with the F-35 more so than the F-22, systems such as sensor fusion is key in dominating the spectrum battlespace of the future. The C2 capability of the F-35 is still in early stages of capability realisation but will continue to expand in application. Such C2 capability will sit well with future pairing of robotics unmanned vehicle. We already know that there are no known technical hurdles for the F-35 in adopting lasers. In short, all the emerging technological requirements can be met by the present platform. This is besides the fact the F-35 is configured with the capacity to grow in systems capability as would be a requirement in any systems of systems development path. The question then is what other compelling reason is there for a 6th gen. platform. The remaining reason in my view is that if you still believe that in the 2030-2050 battlespace, ACM would still be an important consideration.
How does all this has to do with the F-22 re-start question? The compelling reason that has triggered such a conversation is because there are not enough F-22's given the minimal goal of 381 as previously identified. In view of the growing threat from Russia and China, there is a realisation there is a capability gap in numbers. If the dominating rationale that the future technological requirements is not platform centric dependent as in a 6th gen. platform then the conversation and developmental focus becomes one of incremental development of systems using current 5th gen. platform architecture. This will enhance the argument for a F-22 re-start. Basic economics will affirm that any 6th gen. platform will not be cheaper than any 5th gen and if the US cannot afford a F-22 re-start then any 6th gen. development is simply delusional.
(a) spectrum domination;
(b) laser; and
(c) human and machine pairing
There seems to be presently tension in pathway between platform centric development vs systems centric development. Should the latter philosophy prevails (and I am a believer in it), then the notion of 6th gen. will cease to exist as we are accustomed to its meaning. Such a departure in traditional thinking is because each generation has a defining technological feature as with stealth is to 5th generation. Stealth by nature is achieved through shaping and supplemented by radar absorbing materials. As such, platform development dominates. However we also are seeing with the F-35 more so than the F-22, systems such as sensor fusion is key in dominating the spectrum battlespace of the future. The C2 capability of the F-35 is still in early stages of capability realisation but will continue to expand in application. Such C2 capability will sit well with future pairing of robotics unmanned vehicle. We already know that there are no known technical hurdles for the F-35 in adopting lasers. In short, all the emerging technological requirements can be met by the present platform. This is besides the fact the F-35 is configured with the capacity to grow in systems capability as would be a requirement in any systems of systems development path. The question then is what other compelling reason is there for a 6th gen. platform. The remaining reason in my view is that if you still believe that in the 2030-2050 battlespace, ACM would still be an important consideration.
How does all this has to do with the F-22 re-start question? The compelling reason that has triggered such a conversation is because there are not enough F-22's given the minimal goal of 381 as previously identified. In view of the growing threat from Russia and China, there is a realisation there is a capability gap in numbers. If the dominating rationale that the future technological requirements is not platform centric dependent as in a 6th gen. platform then the conversation and developmental focus becomes one of incremental development of systems using current 5th gen. platform architecture. This will enhance the argument for a F-22 re-start. Basic economics will affirm that any 6th gen. platform will not be cheaper than any 5th gen and if the US cannot afford a F-22 re-start then any 6th gen. development is simply delusional.
Exactly, there is no magic mixture of capability nor technological break-through to propel any aircraft into a sixth gen, the LRSB if designed and acquired will be no more stealthy than the B-2 in all likelihood, and smaller to boot??
The F-22 continues to be the upper echelon of ACM technology, and I for one am ethically opposed to unmanned platforms and robotics doing our killing for us??? and by extension those passionless hunks of garbage would just as likely and maybe more likely do in our own children as our enemies, so yes, the F-22 must be resurrected and will be necessary for the defense of these United States of America.
Obama and his unmanned killers are immoral and unaccountable, a decidedly un-Biblical scenario, cold and heartless taking of life is reprehensible, and our judgement day is swiftly approaching, unless we turn back to life, and the eternal value of each person. I may be the Brat, but I love each of you as a brother, and by extension your lovely children, and their children.
I believe the Word says that those who live by the Sword, will also perish by the Sword, I would urge extreme caution when it comes to lasers and robotics as killing tools, and as such manned platforms represent the "safety" on your weapon. I wouldn't dream of carrying a loaded, chambered 1911 cocked??? without it being "LOCKED"
When you draw your weapon, center that other man in your sights, your mind and your heart have a moment of decision as you flick that safety OFF! That moment may save your own child my friend, don't take the safeties off your weapon, and keep your finger OFF the trigger until you know what or who your target is.
Jura The idiot
General
Brother in Christ, I disagree completely, quote just the worst (in my view) part:
I mean there has been NOTHING moral in war-fighting ... anyway I give you Like for the thought-provoking post (and I'm sorry if I misunderstood you), it actually made to recall (in a Thread long gone)
referring to "PTSD" of a Drone Operator (it's preceded by very interesting posts by TE, off topic here so I finish).
Jura The idiot
General
I think we should not kid ourselves based on an announcement of "mulling" F-22 restart, as it may be just a trick being played as suggested by
Facing Election Fight, Forbes Pushes F-22 Revival
(of course I'll NOT discuss Politics here, I'm just trying to point out that "restart" may be forgotten right after the elections, but 6Gen won't be)
