F-22 Raptor Thread

[FORBIN]

in the mean time, upgrading those 34 Raptors for 1.7 Billion is a "hell of a deal", count me IN!

how do you want my "fair share", CASH, CHECK, or CREDIT CARD?? I'm ALL IN!

Possible, do 50 millions $ by bird one recently back to the Ops Fleet former Block 10 upgraded to Block 20 cost 25 millions...

I have 39 and from CAM " special F-22 " i trust more than a internet site...

Each year USAF have a budget of 0.5 - 1 billion for F-22
Aircraft and Related Systems – F-22 Raptor FY : 2016 - 2018 : 518.5 ; 704.4 ; 915.5 milloins $

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But the more important is to have the best fighter

 

[Jura The idiot]

Master Jura,, if you read the proposal for this study,,, you can safely conclude that this is "peanut counting" opposition research against the F-35 program in particular, and the DOD in general... this is the "Congressional" accounting office,, lots of liberals and Dems on this program,, have you looked at the approval numbers of congress???

Why else would you project total cost of well over a trillion dollars out to 60 YEARS?? So they present the bean counters "worst case" scenario on every little issue, and magnify it to the greatest extent possible in order to appear "smarter and more important" than anyone else in the room, and to say to the DOD, we really can't afford this, or that,, kinda like your wife telling you why you can't have a new truck or a gun, while blowing the family budget on shoes and purses??

yes, they've never seen a socialist breakfast, free lunch, or after school program they didn't love, or road construction, (they LOVE Infrastructure), (remember O'bama's SHOVEL READY JOBS), you needed the shovel for all the Bull KRAP!

So, the F-35 is state of the ART, its NOT outdated, its not obsolescent, its ready to go, thankfully concurrency has delivered most of what it promised in the F-35A, F-35B, and F-35C...
each of these unique to their service aircraft are highly effective at what they were designed to do. The Air Force and the Marines will meet any OP-FOR that presents a serious threat "TODAY"....

USAF, MARINE, and NAVY aircraft mechanics have done without ALICE since they were born into the military, and they can and will fix "Every Airplane", to the extent that it needs fixed.. the parts supply issue for the F-35 is NOT nearly as critical as that for the Hornet or Super Hornet at present..

This is a NEW weapon system, that we are still figuring out how to maintain,, we will shortly have most of ALICE up and running, and initial combat focused excercises have shown full well that we have a very effective and combat ready weapon that will give us 5 to1, 10 to 1, 15 to 1, (pick a number, they are all good) weapon system that will meet and beat our near peers today, and well into the future!

So to repeat myself for the 1000th time, (exaggerating my position like the GAO) Fifth Generation aircraft are a very expensive necessity, if we have a desire, (and we DO!) of maintaining "Air Superiority" and the ability to operate those aircraft in the very high threat ground based AAM environment,, yes the F-22 and the F-35 will "KILL" those up front!

so if you wanna play, you've got to PAY! otherwise we cede the future of the world, and our own lovely children to the tender mercies of folks like "Kim Jung Un" and I for one have NO intention of doing that! (OVER MY DEAD BODY!)

in the mean time, upgrading those 34 Raptors for 1.7 Billion is a "hell of a deal", count me IN!

how do you want my "fair share", CASH, CHECK, or CREDIT CARD?? I'm ALL IN!

OK Brother so regarding to what I brought in, which was the cannibalization of F-35 Friday at 10:41 PM, are you perhaps saying it's a non-issue, just stuff made up by GAO using data "processed" in the way so that F-35 looks bad?

 

[Air Force Brat]

OK Brother so regarding to what I brought in, which was the cannibalization of F-35 Friday at 10:41 PM, are you perhaps saying it's a non-issue, just stuff made up by GAO using data "processed" in the way so that F-35 looks bad?

There are some issues, but nothing of the catastrophic nature that report would lead you to believe, it is political hyperbole! the GAO is a rat infested dump, I wouldn't trust them to tell me if the sky was blue, or if it was snowing, they would mislead you, they are experts.. as Jeff would remind you, all these issues are "being worked"!

 

[FORBIN]

There are some issues, but nothing of the catastrophic nature that report would lead you to believe, it is political hyperbole! the GAO is a rat infested dump, I wouldn't trust them to tell me if the sky was blue, or if it was snowing, they would mislead you, they are experts.. as Jeff would remind you, all these issues are "being worked"!

Exactly and administrative reports for peace time !

In more in general they are never enough money for military services it is very rare when they have enough same for people...
Depends also govts political people those on the right are more favorable for France in general it is but we have sometimes also problems, so draws attention... ! but in fact looking recent operations we have always been able to do the job

A simple example for repair, maintenance in War time, régulations are made for security essentially after when the need is there there are not or less obstacles without doing anything ofc

Battle of Midway: Repairing the Yorktown After the Battle of the Coral Sea
Yard workers and sailors worked flat out over three days to get the carrier Yorktown patched up and ready for the decisive Midway battle

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[Air Force Brat]

The Navy is taking things methodologically. The AF and Marines rushed to certify IOC but not FOC. Most folks in the civilian world and certainly politicians don't even know the difference.

As much as I like to say yes, the truth is at this very moment ZERO F35s are ready for operational combat missions. That is the truth. None of them can even launched 9 Xrays internally. Only pylon launched which severely compromise stealth integrity. That's just one of the many things it can't do.

The Block 3F is suppose to be the cure all but that in itself has many iterations and not ready for prime time.
The latest is 3F Revise 6 and is not fully combat coded all the way either and now they are saying wait till Block 4.XX.

In the meantime we will have over 100 copies that is just paper weight and in all likelihood will either be used for spare parts or mothball at D-M AFB in the future.

With the way the Pentagon does things, it is highly unlikely the ones we see today will ever be upgraded to full mission capable when the time comes.

Actually the NAVY is broke, truncating their F-35C buys, and pushing back their IOC date,,, too many irons in the fire, and not enough fire. Lockheed Martin designed and built the F-35C strictly and solely for the USN, and its a very fine aircraft..

The F-35 is far more combat capable than the J-20, J-31, or SU-57, so yes the Navy is pushing their commitment back, and they did indeed make a commitment.. and every F-35C that they push back, drives the cost up for those who are keeping their commitments..

so you can put the blame on contractors, or you can put the blame of the previous administration for "choking off" the military, and spending budget money on social programs that we can't afford, and that continue to drive up the national debt?

in the US, Defense Contractor's succeed or fail by designing, building, and fielding equipment that hopefully give the "warfighter" a combat edge. The govt didn't give LockMart the JSF contract, LockMart earned it in a competition that ended up producing two X-Planes, the X-32 and the X-35...

and so we built the F-35 concurrently with prototyping and testing,,, so yes there is some in-evitable up-grading that must be done, and that costs money, but in the meantime those IOC aircraft are flying missions, real missions that will "mature" this aircraft and its program..

whether or NOT DOD upgrades those aircraft is solely dependant on each aircraft, and the economic feasibility of repairing or replacing that aircraft,, but then the same principles apply when we are choosing aircraft for SLEPs, only the best aircraft, are upgraded and retained..

just like school, some folks make it, and some folks don't, that's life! but the F-35 is now the near term future of Fighter Aircraft in the US and at least 8 partner nations, and the F-35 will as a matter of course, defeat every 4gen and 4++ gen aircraft it encounters if the pilot and everyone else in the "kill chain" does their part....

 

[Jura The idiot]

There are some issues, but nothing of the catastrophic nature that report would lead you to believe, it is political hyperbole! the GAO is a rat infested dump, I wouldn't trust them to tell me if the sky was blue, or if it was snowing, they would mislead you, they are experts.. as Jeff would remind you, all these issues are "being worked"!

LOL I've been reading here those anti-GAO posts for years

I'm suspicious why so much repair work is even needed at this point in the program (when the serial production hasn't started yet) Friday at 10:16 PM

gosh
Lockheed struggles with F-35 sustainment
27 October, 2017

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pressing Like, I'm ready to leave it at that

 

[kwaigonegin]

Actually the NAVY is broke, truncating their F-35C buys, and pushing back their IOC date,,, too many irons in the fire, and not enough fire. Lockheed Martin designed and built the F-35C strictly and solely for the USN, and its a very fine aircraft..

The F-35 is far more combat capable than the J-20, J-31, or SU-57, so yes the Navy is pushing their commitment back, and they did indeed make a commitment.. and every F-35C that they push back, drives the cost up for those who are keeping their commitments..

so you can put the blame on contractors, or you can put the blame of the previous administration for "choking off" the military, and spending budget money on social programs that we can't afford, and that continue to drive up the national debt?

in the US, Defense Contractor's succeed or fail by designing, building, and fielding equipment that hopefully give the "warfighter" a combat edge. The govt didn't give LockMart the JSF contract, LockMart earned it in a competition that ended up producing two X-Planes, the X-32 and the X-35...

and so we built the F-35 concurrently with prototyping and testing,,, so yes there is some in-evitable up-grading that must be done, and that costs money, but in the meantime those IOC aircraft are flying missions, real missions that will "mature" this aircraft and its program..

whether or NOT DOD upgrades those aircraft is solely dependant on each aircraft, and the economic feasibility of repairing or replacing that aircraft,, but then the same principles apply when we are choosing aircraft for SLEPs, only the best aircraft, are upgraded and retained..

just like school, some folks make it, and some folks don't, that's life! but the F-35 is now the near term future of Fighter Aircraft in the US and at least 8 partner nations, and the F-35 will as a matter of course, defeat every 4gen and 4++ gen aircraft it encounters if the pilot and everyone else in the "kill chain" does their part....

Dang brutha you sound like you work at the marketing dept of LM

I try to see things through objective lens and I think the F-35 will eventually become NATO's front line fighter with almost no peer however I do see a lot of problems with the program that goes far beyond normalcy. Things that goes far beyond teething or post implementation issues.

I want the F35s to get out to the fleet ASAP however if they are not ready they are not ready. The Navy and even worse the MC is in serious shortage of combat ready aircraft. Over HALF of all Navy hornets are not ready to fight today! these low readiness figures is due to anything from lack of spares to LTM (long term maintenance) etc etc.

Buying even more planes that is not truly combat ready is useless and actually drives up cost even more.

 

[Air Force Brat]

Dang brutha you sound like you work at the marketing dept of LM

I try to see things through objective lens and I think the F-35 will eventually become NATO's front line fighter with almost no peer however I do see a lot of problems with the program that goes far beyond normalcy. Things that goes far beyond teething or post implementation issues.

I want the F35s to get out to the fleet ASAP however if they are not ready they are not ready. The Navy and even worse the MC is in serious shortage of combat ready aircraft. Over HALF of all Navy hornets are not ready to fight today! these low readiness figures is due to anything from lack of spares to LTM (long term maintenance) etc etc.

Buying even more planes that is not truly combat ready is useless and actually drives up cost even more.

and you must work for Boeing, or at least be a "sympathizer",,, hell, I love McDonald Douglas, the F-15 is still the most wonderful airplane on the planet, and the F-18 is a sweethearts, sweetheart, Boeing gets most of this stuff right!

The F-35 was the LO in a HI/LO mix,,, now it has all these added duties, and it will do well as an air-superiority fighter,, but they should have NEVER cut F-22 production.

and you're right about those poor old Hornets, and the Super Bug as well,,, these girls and the F-15 are at very, very high risk in the toxic SAM environment the Russians have provided almost everywhere that we might need to go fight.

I DO think the USN is behind the 8 ball here, really far behind the 8 ball,, the Marines and the Air Force have F-35s that could and will go fight and win today! are they fully combat capable, NO, and they won't be for at least 10 years.. The Ford class and to a lesser extent the Nimitz class will be severely handicapped without the F-35C, that's the truth!

and 100 new or almost new F-35s parked at DMAFB,,, come on, that's more hyperbole..

You're a very smart lad, do you work for Boeing or a subsidiarly?? (don't answer that if it compromises your security clearance), I do NOT work for LockMart, but I respect their history and their ethic, but more importantly, they do deliver, as Boeing does as well.

to date, LockMart has the L/O fighter market in the US on "Lockdown"......

 

[FORBIN]

Dang brutha you sound like you work at the marketing dept of LM

I try to see things through objective lens and I think the F-35 will eventually become NATO's front line fighter with almost no peer however I do see a lot of problems with the program that goes far beyond normalcy. Things that goes far beyond teething or post implementation issues.

I want the F35s to get out to the fleet ASAP however if they are not ready they are not ready. The Navy and even worse the MC is in serious shortage of combat ready aircraft. Over HALF of all Navy hornets are not ready to fight today! these low readiness figures is due to anything from lack of spares to LTM (long term maintenance) etc etc.
Buying even more planes that is not truly combat ready is useless and actually drives up cost even more.

and you must work for Boeing

say Brat


Hehe your not happy at less 94 new for FY 2017 - 22


I have here 26 for FY 2017

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Some say for fix completely an eventual fighter shortfall necessary about 150 but 94 it is yet more than decent.

Also possible EA-18G Block III with FTs have same range than a F-35C no stealth ofc surely less good in the long game ( BVR combat ) but interesting to have the number.

 

[Jura The idiot]

USAF puts comms gateway for F-22 and F-35 back on shopping list
08 November, 2017

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incredibly, it hasn't been fixed after so many years ...:

A communications system that can translate messages between the US Air Force’s most advanced and oldest fighters is back on the service’s expedited shopping list, according to a recent acquisition notice.

The Air Force Lifecycle Management Center (AFLCMC) is asking suppliers to provide information about how they could deliver and integrate a “5th to 4th Generation Gateway” system on the USAF’s fighters within 12 months.

Details of the USAF’s technical requirements for the gateway system are stamped “for official use only” in a 23 October request for information issued by AFLCMC, so are not publicly disclosed.

The RFI represents the “government's market research to assess the current state of existing technical capabilities and interest from industry to provide a 5th Generation to 4th Generation Gateway operational capability in 12 months on airborne platforms,” the AFLCMC says to FlightGlobal.

But the need for a system that can translate coded messages in stealth mode between fifth generation fighters, such as Lockheed Martin F-22s and F-35s, and fourth generation fighters, including Boeing F-15s and Lockheed F-16s, has been known for a long time.

The F-22 uses the intraflight data link (IFDL) to communicate with other F-22s in stealth mode with a low probability of detection or interception. The F-35 uses the multifunction advanced data link (MADL) for the same purpose, but only with other F-35s. Neither the IFDL or MADL is compatible with data links by so-called “fourth-generation” fighters, such as Link-16 and Link-11, which send encrypted messages using waveforms that can be detected by adversaries.

Developing a system that can bridge that gap has been pursued for more than a decade. In 2008, the USAF demonstrated that an F-22’s IFDL waveform could be translated into a waveform that could be received by Link-16. The demonstration used the Northrop Grumman Battlefield Airborne Communications Node (BACN). That system is now fielded on USAF E-11s and RQ-4s, but still lacks the ability to bridge the IFDL and Link-16 waveforms operationally.

In responses to questions by FlightGlobal, the AFLCMC emphasises that the new RFI is not limited to potential new applications of the BACN gateway system.