European Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

TerraN_EmpirE

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
Scratch said:
With the many G36 users, the BW seems to be the only one really having those issues. The Peshmerga are reported to love those weapons ;) , and the Lithuanians (?) say all is fine. Although their rifles apparently differ significantly.
So was the BW the only one who got screwed by HK when using cheap, unspecified materials for the rifle?
The publicized numbers indicate the loss in accuracy is really significant. There's also the statement that other comparisson systems were able to meet the laid out criteria. But no info wich product that is, how much it weighs or costs in comparison to the G36.
Then there was a part in the report saying while the G36 didn't meet the current requirements for an assault rifle, it is within the specifications agreed upon in 1995. Now that is a completely different issue of course
Currently I'm missing the intent of actually clearing up all these contradictions.
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A whole lotta questions need answering. With use by over 40 countries around the world and licensed production in Saudi Arabia and Spain + 20 years of service why was this not noticed a decade ago?
As to alternatives at the time in 94-95 the Germans only looked at the offerings from HK and Steyr.
Today they have again HK or Steyr there are a few other makers in Germany but none that can compete with those two and HK pretty much plays home court in the German armory. If the Germans were to move fore replacement top billing would go to HK for there HK416A5 German government designation G38.
Weight to weight.
G36C 6.2 pounds 9 inch barrel G38C 6.5 pounds 9 inch barrel.
G36K 7.3 pounds 12.5 inch barrel G38K 7.69 pounds 14.5 inch barrel
G36 8 pounds 18.5 inch barrel G38 7.85 pounds 16.5 inch barrel.
and HK416 is about 1.5 times the price of a stock G36. But considering the issues with G36 fixing them will likely be about the same amount of money.
 
S

Scratch

Captain
TerraN_EmpirE said:
A whole lotta questions need answering. With use by over 40 countries around the world and licensed production in Saudi Arabia and Spain + 20 years of service why was this not noticed a decade ago?
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A bit additional info from the report, don't know if you're aware of it. It's said they randomly took 2 rifles out of a 300 collection for each type and production standart. The test apparently was to empty a magazine with one shot every three seconds, which doesn't seem insanely quick. I don't know how much time was in between magazines, though.
However, the report also seems to indicate that intense sun exposure causes enough thermal deforming so that the first shots can already be significantly less accurate.

With combat deployment to AFG for over a decade and the first intense firefight for us reoccuring perhaps since around '08 or '09, someone should have noted. The first serious complaints / news about reports regarding those issues came up in 2012, I think. After some time a comprehensive study was made stating that the issue was with certain types of ammo that had a manufacturing fault (the zinc jacket was too thin).

As to alternatives at the time in 94-95 the Germans only looked at the offerings from HK and Steyr.
Today they have again HK or Steyr there are a few other makers in Germany but none that can compete with those two and HK pretty much plays home court in the German armory. If the Germans were to move fore replacement top billing would go to HK for there HK416A5 German government designation G38.
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I sometimes wonder if the SG550 could have been an option also. Seems like a nice rifle. But not much is heared about it regarding combat experiances.
 
S

Scratch

Captain
TerraN, in a news bit I found a pic from the often mentioned report with a caption. There's two barrel assemblies. One from a G36A1, and one from another rifle. The second barrel is only described as being from "product A", which is said to have been the best one in the test series.
Other products have been descriebed as being better than the G36, but none have been named so far.

2zhqjbq.jpg


HK, in a press release said the following (paraphrase):
A press conference indcated another HK product did better than the G36. The only other modern HK rifle in 5,56mm is the HK416.
Since the Bw did not want HK to partake in the testing, HK did not provide the Bw with a HK416A5 or A6 rifle as requested. However, in 2011 HK delivered a few specialized HK416A3 rifles as a LMG variant (thicker, heavier barrel). It is therefore likely that this is the top performer.
 
TerraN_EmpirE

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
Scratch said:
A bit additional info from the report, don't know if you're aware of it. It's said they randomly took 2 rifles out of a 300 collection for each type and production standart. The test apparently was to empty a magazine with one shot every three seconds, which doesn't seem insanely quick. I don't know how much time was in between magazines, though.
However, the report also seems to indicate that intense sun exposure causes enough thermal deforming so that the first shots can already be significantly less accurate
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If true That would indicate a severe heat issue.
With combat deployment to AFG for over a decade and the first intense firefight for us reoccuring perhaps since around '08 or '09, someone should have noted. The first serious complaints / news about reports regarding those issues came up in 2012, I think. After some time a comprehensive study was made stating that the issue was with certain types of ammo that had a manufacturing fault (the zinc jacket was too thin).
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It seems almost as if the German Army was not conducting regular testing of there weapons. That may indicate issues with other Weapons in there arsenal such as the MP7A1 with also uses Polymer construction. It also makes one wonder about other users especially in tropical environments like Mexico, Malaysia, Spain, and Saudi Arabia and weapons in the family like the XM8.

I sometimes wonder if the SG550 could have been an option also. Seems like a nice rifle. But not much is heared about it regarding combat experiances.
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Well it's Swiss. used mostly by smaller Police agencies

Scratch said:
TerraN, in a news bit I found a pic from the often mentioned report with a caption. There's two barrel assemblies. One from a G36A1, and one from another rifle. The second barrel is only described as being from "product A", which is said to have been the best one in the test series.
Other products have been descriebed as being better than the G36, but none have been named so far.

2zhqjbq.jpg


HK, in a press release said the following (paraphrase):
A press conference indcated another HK product did better than the G36. The only other modern HK rifle in 5,56mm is the HK416.
Since the Bw did not want HK to partake in the testing, HK did not provide the Bw with a HK416A5 or A6 rifle as requested. However, in 2011 HK delivered a few specialized HK416A3 rifles as a LMG variant (thicker, heavier barrel). It is therefore likely that this is the top performer.
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I Don't think there is a HK416A6 yet. maybe down the line
the Upper assembly is a G36 no doubt the lower is a HK416 variant you can see it in the M4 style Trunnion and flip up sight.
HK416.jpg
HK416 is manufactured with a M4 style receiver meaning Aircraft grade aluminum which is very very rugged and combat has proven it in extended battle.
HK416A5_16_RAL_re_GLM.png
We might see this as the next german assault rifle.
The only other maker I can think of is Schmeisser who makes AR15 clones.
 
Jeff Head

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
asif iqbal said:
Just heard Italy has ordered the 9th and 10th FREEM FFG

Has of been reported?? I'm on my phone sorry

A huge development for Italy and a massive boost to the Navy !
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Yes, Asif. it was reported on SD a couple of pages ago...

HEREhttps://www.sinodefenceforum.com/european-military-news-views.t4395/page-43#post-336582https://www.sinodefenceforum.com/european-military-news-views.t4395/page-43#post-336582

These will be the Anti-air centric versions of the FREMM for the Italians and will serve alongside their Horizon DDGs, giving them four powerful AAW escorts for their carriers and other high value vessels.
 
Miragedriver

Miragedriver

Brigadier
Germany returned to service 100 Leopard tanks

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(Defensa.com) The German Defence Ministry recently announced its intention to recover for active duty hundred Leopard 2 tanks that had been previously written off and were even sold to the industry, which still keeps stored. To do allocate $ 22 million to restore these cars will be modernized from the year 2017. The current role of Russia in the conflict with Ukraine would have to review the plan of reorganization of the German armored forces in 2011 meant cutting the number of tanks from 350 to 225. The bill now announced by the German Ministry of Defense aims to reach a figure of 328 tanks.

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Germany wants to be able to deploy troops with their equipment if necessary in a short period of time, especially in the framework of the Rapid Reaction Force of NATO. In February, NATO agreed to create a rapid force following the conflict in Ukraine and the growing threat of Islamic state reaction.

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Back to bottling my Grenache
 
TerraN_EmpirE

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
Well G36's Days Are numbered.
GERMANY
German defense minister says 'no future' for G36 rifles in Bundeswehr
Germany's military will have to find a replacement for the current G36 assault rifle, according to Defense Minister Ursula von der Leyen. Special Forces troops are to receive new weapons immediately.

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Germany's military was likely to get a
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after Defense Minister Ursula von der Leyen declared on Wednesday that the weapon had "no future in the German army in its current state of construction."

The Defense Ministry would now work towards replacing the gun as soon as possible, von der Leyen said after she met with representatives of the parliamentary Defense Commission in Berlin.

Immediate replacement for soldiers

Special Forces deployed in conflict areas were to receive replacement weapons immediately, the minister added. However, she did not exclude the possibility of the army adopting a new version of the G36, produced by weapons company Heckler & Koch.

Problems with the assault rifle would be discussed within the Defense Ministry and initially there would be no parliamentary commission to examine the ministry's findings, opposition parties said in Berlin.

The Left and the Green parties would at some point in time question Interior Minister Thomas de Maiziere on the G36 affair. De Maiziere served as defense minister in 2010, when problems with the weapon first came to light.

Low accuracy at high temperatures

The assault rifle's capabilities came under scrutiny after a study commissioned by the German Defense Ministry last year claimed "the weapons system did not fulfill the requirements."

The weapon's capacity to hit targets fell to 30 percent when the surrounding temperature reached 30 degrees Celsius (86 Fahrenheit) or when the weapon became hot through constant use, the report said.

The reason for the gun's poor precision was its "complete system," the research revealed.

mg/ sms (dpa, AFP)
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Here are the options as I see it.
1) HK G38 based on the HK416A5
2) HK cooks up a G36A7 with a totally new receiver
3) HK offers a new Receiver version of XM8
4) the least likely, a Totally new system outside of HK is adopted. like the AR15's from Schmeisser
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