European Military News, Reports, Data, etc.
- Thread starter sandyj
- Start date
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
Sounds kinda familiar...
1 is the upper Receiver which is molded polymer
2 is the bolt face which is actually nearly identical to a AR15/M16/M4 bolt
3 is the barrel Trunnion it where the upper Receiver and the barrel meet. Because part 1 is polymer heat is transferred directly into the receiver this loosens the barrel and is causing the issue.
I also covered a Possible fix
And there is another Option G38.
HK416A5 is a HK416 built using features borrowed form the in German issue HK G28 DMR rifle ( HK417) HK416 uses the same gas system of G36 but crossed with the Body of a M4. It's construction is like that of a M4 meaning that the upper is made of high grade aircraft Quality Alluminum well the Barrel and Trunnion is made of high quality steel. Germany has offically adopted the G38 (16.5 inch barrel) , G38K (14.5 Inch barrel) and G38C (11 inch barrel)
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A small take from my side:
There have been rumors, personal beliefs and allegations against the G36 for several years now of being unreliable with it's accuracy. And it was perhaps the first mistake to not decisively verify one way or the other. It always lingered around. Perhpas sometimes with a small notion that unaccurate shooting was inteded to be blamed on the rifle.
After those accusations got worse a few years ago and indications seemed to support them, there was a proper test that found one specific type of ammunition to be faulty to the extend of causing the inaccuracy.
However, the problems, even with other ammo types, seemed not to go away, so there was another comprehensive test ordered. While AFAIK the final results are not out yet, the preliminary findings, wich have now been announed a week ago by the MoD, apparently show an actual, significant problem of accuracy with the rifles themselves. I think in a press conference I have heared the statement that rifles of all types (generations?) are affected. It was also reported that comparable rifle designs were much less affected, whatever that means.
So far the state of affairs is the weapon is safe to use. There's no specific danger of misfire of mechanical failure. It's just that under stressfull climatic conditions (hot temperatures, intense use and temp variations like direct sunshine / shadow) the accuracy seems to suffer.
As I said, the final results are still not there, so final conclusions will have to wait.
This could, however, have significant implications if the design should indeed be deemed unfit for duty use.
When the rifle was ordered and designed (the early '90s), we wanted a light, easy to use gun for central europe. Now light, to a certain extent, of course means less resistance to thermal stress. The temps here are lower then in AFG or Mali, and I think people didn't really think of the intense, long lasting fire fights we saw in AFG.
On a side note, AFAIK later generations, although I don't know which exactly, transitioned from rifeld to polygon barrels (?) which should be somewhat more heat resistant. I don't know what the deal is here.
Now the issue is with procurement stopped last summer, we're on the verge of running into yet another equipment shortage. The first batches, introduced some 15 years ago, start to reach the end of their service life (the barrels in particular) after seeing some instense service abroad.
The A2s brought the shorter but stock, a new reflex sight, and I think the hand guard may come with picatinny rails.
The A3s are the IdZ-ES (Infantryman of the future - expanded system) rifles with a new telescopic sight, accessories and PTT buttons.
And then there's the A4 concept wich is ment to be the new base version, while the A2 and A3 are still based on the A1.
There have been rumors, personal beliefs and allegations against the G36 for several years now of being unreliable with it's accuracy. And it was perhaps the first mistake to not decisively verify one way or the other. It always lingered around. Perhpas sometimes with a small notion that unaccurate shooting was inteded to be blamed on the rifle.
After those accusations got worse a few years ago and indications seemed to support them, there was a proper test that found one specific type of ammunition to be faulty to the extend of causing the inaccuracy.
However, the problems, even with other ammo types, seemed not to go away, so there was another comprehensive test ordered. While AFAIK the final results are not out yet, the preliminary findings, wich have now been announed a week ago by the MoD, apparently show an actual, significant problem of accuracy with the rifles themselves. I think in a press conference I have heared the statement that rifles of all types (generations?) are affected. It was also reported that comparable rifle designs were much less affected, whatever that means.
So far the state of affairs is the weapon is safe to use. There's no specific danger of misfire of mechanical failure. It's just that under stressfull climatic conditions (hot temperatures, intense use and temp variations like direct sunshine / shadow) the accuracy seems to suffer.
As I said, the final results are still not there, so final conclusions will have to wait.
This could, however, have significant implications if the design should indeed be deemed unfit for duty use.
When the rifle was ordered and designed (the early '90s), we wanted a light, easy to use gun for central europe. Now light, to a certain extent, of course means less resistance to thermal stress. The temps here are lower then in AFG or Mali, and I think people didn't really think of the intense, long lasting fire fights we saw in AFG.
On a side note, AFAIK later generations, although I don't know which exactly, transitioned from rifeld to polygon barrels (?) which should be somewhat more heat resistant. I don't know what the deal is here.
Now the issue is with procurement stopped last summer, we're on the verge of running into yet another equipment shortage. The first batches, introduced some 15 years ago, start to reach the end of their service life (the barrels in particular) after seeing some instense service abroad.
The A2s brought the shorter but stock, a new reflex sight, and I think the hand guard may come with picatinny rails.
The A3s are the IdZ-ES (Infantryman of the future - expanded system) rifles with a new telescopic sight, accessories and PTT buttons.
And then there's the A4 concept wich is ment to be the new base version, while the A2 and A3 are still based on the A1.
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
Polygonal rifling was Standard on all G36 to my knowledge HK uses it widely. the Handguard on the A2 and original G36 models is the Same and has always had a option of adding additional rail interfaces. the A2 stock is taken from the G36C which is shorter then that on the original and was found more suited to body armor. the Original sighting system dates to 1996 and over the years there have been some complaints of the small aperture size. This lead to the IDZ upgrade as well as want of a more modern stock. If you look at the A3 vs the A4 the only difrence other then the tan is the more pronounced Forearm. I also thought I hear tell of changing the magwell. Today's G36 Magazine well uses a AK style latch requiring a unique magazine. Almost every other Assault rifle in NATO other then the Classic Sig and the Steyr AUG all use the same magazine design based on the AR15.
Equation
Lieutenant General
Now that you mentioned it, I noticed the magazine release lever or switch is more accessible than the AK, meaning it's thicker and easier to reach. Imagine an infantry in the dark of night without NVG having to fiddle around for the magazine release button just to change the magazine.
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
HK has Fired off 3 Statements to counter the Claim however it's more or less all media no substance.
I am posting a link to the Firearms blog who is covering all the press releases but also shows photos of a G36 Barrel Trunnion and it's polymer housing complete with indications of loosening due to heat.
I am posting a link to the Firearms blog who is covering all the press releases but also shows photos of a G36 Barrel Trunnion and it's polymer housing complete with indications of loosening due to heat.
Equation
Lieutenant General
It's just the G36 polymer receiver that's having issue with heat. It is a concern yes, but one that the company can resolve by using a different material without sacrificing weight.
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
that's the just of it but HK seems not to want to cover that instead going on the defensive.
Bundeswehr today is smaller since one year back. From around 180.000 down to 106.000+ soldaten. I will german ministry to sinken down with 10.000 troops down until 96.000 soldaten. Forces budjet will goes from around 33 billion € to under around 28 billion €.
16.000 seeman and marines like today situation then 20.000 personnal in Luftwaffe. The rest will been in Heer. This I dreaming on in german forces.
Near Polish strenght by Heer. Bundeswehr today is no perfect. Nearly Polish size with first sizes. The reserve will be like today by 144.000 troops.
A bit up are better?
200.000 soldiers old Bundeswehr reserve force.
Wich to have in reserve if Bundeswehr have in 96.000 forces?
Old Netherlands size with 96.000 soldiers. 10 year back.
Can go around 12.000 down by outland war with newest sizes.
Then force up to one possible sizes around 150.000 soldaten and seeman.
Edit1. One sizes 2015-2030. After that will been 2031-2045.
Edit2. What to say german fans outside Germany in SD forum?!?