European Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

Scratch · Oct 4, 2014

Re: European armed forces

From the F-35 thread:

Air Force Brat said:
which just "shows to go ya" that all aircraft are very complex, and those German and British Typhoons have been "beat on" in an attempt to put them out there ahead of the F-22, much like our own F-15s. You can break them, if you "beat on" them all the time, and I "strongly" encourage USAF to put the Raptors on a conservation plan to maintain those lower time airframes for the future, and to "fix" the higher time airframes by developing early "life extension" programs.

Unfortunately, that issue is not really the result of "beating on them", but of what appears to be an unrefined production process. It looks like in the end that issue might not even have any effect at all on the flight hour limit of those parts. There's tests going on with results exspected mid next year. We shall see.

I also just read an article in the online version of a german newspaper saying our sole EuroHawk, the airframe from the recently cancled SIGINT project, might get back out of the garage.
There is a report within the MoD saying they want to continue developing the SIGINT equipment and that a search for alternative platforms was unsucessfull.
So they need to continue testing on that airframe while a potential system would have to run on a later model GlobalHawk.
Just rumors as of now, I guess. But I do hope the thing comes back. Maybe together with the NATO AGS programm on the block40 GH.

FORBIN · Oct 5, 2014

Re: European armed forces

AgustaWestland delivered the Italian army's first two of at least 16 ICH-47F Chinook transport helicopters on 2 October, during a ceremony held at its Vergiate plant near Varese.

“The latest generation Chinook offers a quantum leap in terms of range, protection, safety, combat and overall performance capabilities, thanks also to a tailored digital mission suite, compared with the current fleet of modernised CH-47Cs, which has been the workhorse of Italian army aviation for more than four decades," says the service's chief of staff Gen Claudio Graziano.The service's current Chinooks have flown 5,600h in the extreme conditions of Afghanistan, he adds.

The first ICH-47F left AgustaWestland's facility with the army's first qualified crew immediately after the ceremony to reach Viterbo; the home of the 1st Regiment “Antares”, which already operates 17 CH-47C+ helicopters. The second aircraft will follow around mid-October, with two more to be transferred before the end of the year. Initial operating capability with the new variant is expected to be declared in around 12 months.

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AgustaWestland

“The start of deliveries sets a major milestone in the strategic partnership between the company and the service, which will continue with the support of the fleet and the client for many years to come,” says AgustaWestland chief executive Daniele Romiti. “ICH-47F deliveries will follow at four units per year until 2017.”

Italy's ICH-47F differs from Boeing's baseline F-model Chinook by using a modified glass cockpit and tailored pilot/vehicle interface, which is common with Canada's recently delivered aircraft. Mission equipment includes a navigation, communication and identification suite, weather radar, L-3 Wescam MX-15HDi electro-optical/infrared sensor and Selex ES LOAM obstacle warning system. The lattercompany also provides the type’s communications suite with satellite communications and datalink capability.

A self-protection package features Elettronica radar warning receivers, an Airbus Defence & Space missile warning system, Selex ES laser warning systems and MES-supplied chaff and flare dispensers. An armed fit will come later, including single-barrel or minigun 7.62mm machine guns at the lateral doors and a 12.7mm gun on the rear ramp. Ballistic protection and engine infrared suppressors are also in the pipeline, but have not been ordered yet.

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AgustaWestland

Under a joint industrial agreement with Boeing, AgustaWestland is prime contractor for the Italian ICH-47F programme, which was launched in 2008 and also contains an initial five-year logistics support service package. In addition to being responsible for systems integration, final assembly and aircraft delivery, with fuselages coming from Boeing, the European company is also being qualified to produce the entire drive system as a second source for worldwide customers. It also has a licencing agreement with Boeing to market, sell and produce the new Chinook variant to at least some Mediterranean countries.

Italy's order also includes an extended option for an additional four ICH-47Fs, which would be equipped for special operations support tasks.

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Scratch · Oct 6, 2014

Re: European armed forces

Another A400M milestone, this time it's airdrop:

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A400M performs maximum-capacity airdrop
By: Craig Hoyle, London - 5 hours ago

Airbus has demonstrated one of the A400M’s key contractual requirements, with an aircraft from the manufacturer’s “Grizzly” development fleet having performed a maximum-capacity airdrop.

“In tests conducted at Cazaux, France, the aircraft dropped 24 1t container deliver systems in a single pass,” says Airbus Defence & Space. Loaded in two rows in the A400M’s cargo hold, these were released by gravity, says the company, which has distributed an image of the activity taken by France's DGA defence procurement agency.

“This test demonstrates the maximum capacity of the A400M for this type of container and is a key contractual requirement,” says Airbus Defence & Space. The “Atlas” has a maximum useful cargo capacity of 32t.

The French air force took delivery of its fifth A400M in early September, with the aircraft now at its Orléans-Bricy air base. The service will eventually operate a fleet of 50 of the Europrop International TP400-D6-engined transports.

New operators the UK and Germany are scheduled to receive their first A400Ms before the end of this year, when they will join France and Turkey in using the new type. Other future recipients will be Belgium, Luxembourg, Malaysia and Spain, with Airbus also seeking fresh export deals.

Jeff Head · Oct 6, 2014

Re: European armed forces

Scratch said:
Another A400M milestone, this time it's airdrop:

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I REALLY like the A400 Grizzly. It is going to be an important aircraft, and many US allies will operate it. France, Turkey, the UK, Germany, Malaysia, Luxembourg and Belgium.

I know it is turboprop and not a turbo fan (jet), but I still view it sort of as the Eurpean C-17. Sort of positioned between the C-130J Super Herculese and the C-17 Globemaster III

FORBIN · Oct 6, 2014

Re: European armed forces

Turboprop but the more powerful maybe with those of Tu-95/142 and speed very close Trp aircrafts use turbo.

Scratch · Oct 7, 2014

Re: European armed forces

Jeff Head said:
I REALLY like the A400 Grizzly. It is going to be an important aircraft, and many US allies will operate it. France, Turkey, the UK, Germany, Malaysia, Luxembourg and Belgium.

I know it is turboprop and not a turbo fan (jet), but I still view it sort of as the Eurpean C-17. Sort of positioned between the C-130J Super Herculese and the C-17 Globemaster III

It's a great new capability for many of the nations getting it, and will be a great workhorse. However, I'm still a little bit thinking of it as falling just short. While it's touted as giving us strategic airlift capacity, it maybe just about doesn't. At 37t max payload, it'll never carry a MBT or our PzH2000. Carrying the new IFV at just over 30t, it's range is 4,500km unrefueld. Which is just about ok, I guess.
I still like the idea from the beginning of the project that suggesetd an Antonov AN-70 development as the final airplane, somewhat larger, 47t payload and propfans. Would have been an interesting technical detail. But with those props, it's still doing great.
Although, again, for a true strategic airlift capacity having a few C-17s on a european level would be nice. While the Globemaster III cruises only marginally faster, it has over twice the max payload, and at comparable loads a much greater range.

FORBIN · Oct 7, 2014

Re: European armed forces

Recently used for delivery log to Djibouti, UAE replace about 2 C-130 more fast and no stops for these distances cary about 15 t, strategic transport " light " but he don' t want C-5/17 ofc.

1st French Squ 1/61 to Orléans used 5 now and very soon IOC but several upgrade, blocks, again especially for assault transportation at low altitude ... depends customer also.

I don' t think can carry Puma with all armor Kits, German do loud as Israel for tanks and AIFV but i like this philosopy don' t copy Netherlands ! you never know...

asif iqbal · Oct 7, 2014

Re: European armed forces

Scratch said:
It's a great new capability for many of the nations getting it, and will be a great workhorse. However, I'm still a little bit thinking of it as falling just short. While it's touted as giving us strategic airlift capacity, it maybe just about doesn't. At 37t max payload, it'll never carry a MBT or our PzH2000. Carrying the new IFV at just over 30t, it's range is 4,500km unrefueld. Which is just about ok, I guess.
I still like the idea from the beginning of the project that suggesetd an Antonov AN-70 development as the final airplane, somewhat larger, 47t payload and propfans. Would have been an interesting technical detail. But with those props, it's still doing great.
Although, again, for a true strategic airlift capacity having a few C-17s on a european level would be nice. While the Globemaster III cruises only marginally faster, it has over twice the max payload, and at comparable loads a much greater range.

Thing you have to remember is that Cold War is over and Europe does not have a requirement to transport a main battle ready tank over a huge distance by air

Not many country's can do that anyway the USAF certainly does and the whole reason was to fly in tanks to Europe on short notice to counter any Soviet attack

Today a heavy IFV is the most they will need and that is what is the requirement for the A-400 which it meets

The other thing you have to take into account is that we are talking about huge procurement orders

France 50 x A-400, yes that's 50 units!!! Huge order right there the capability to lift in excess of 1,500 tons by air no small lift by any means

Germany has 53 units on order

UK ok has only 22 but they have
8 x C17 Globe masters possibly adding 9 which reminds me Aussies are getting another 2-4 units
14 x air tankers
24 x C130J

But I seriously think that Turkey needs to up its order from 10 units, Turkey has masses of armour and men and they need at minimum something like 30-40 x A-400 I hope they order more

Scratch · Oct 8, 2014

Re: European armed forces

You're probably correct with the MBT carrying criterion being overkill. But I think the PzH2000 issue is actually a relevant one, as we only have that system for tube arty. And that type of fire support (155mm tube) is pretty nice to have, although the MLRS system is much lighter, and with modern weapons and avionics might do as well.
Something like the swedish ARCHER or french CEASAR would be nice.

The A400M can carry the PUMA in the baseline version. Four aircraft could carry three IFVs (one each) plus the add-on armour for all of them (on the 4th A/C).

TerraN_EmpirE · Oct 8, 2014

Re: European armed forces

generally speaking Moving MBT's by Air is a limited thing and not a necessity even in the cold war. unless you have hundreds of C17 class transports like the US the ability to move a real armored fighting force by air is not realistic and even then the Transports have to be able to land in unprepared fields. remember A C17 can only load one tank at a time.

European Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

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