Jura The idiot
General
what may happen, among other things, is they may recruit a double agent LOL
Espionage involving China
- Thread starter kroko
- Start date
Jura The idiot
General
Quickie
Colonel
It's a propaganda piece.
Do you see Comac C919 being sued for engineering patent violation? All the engineering information covered by the patents are easily available in the open.
No need to do any hacking.
manqiangrexue
Brigadier
Common tactic, lots of speculation. I don't care to run down the corporate protocol on what to do next when your last espionage effort failed, but the point is, everyone tries to spy on everyone else. The biggest hurdles they will face will be 1. Chinese laws prohibiting medical samples from being shipped abroad and medical data from being transferred abroad, and 2. Chinese regulations being vastly different with all the Chinese firms intimately familiar with not only what they are but what is flexible and what is not. Some of these conflict with the core teachings in American practice and that could be a non-starter for them once they find these things out. The Chinese government will also not be helpful because they believe that there is great danger in providing massive amounts of detailed Chinese genetic information that could fall into the hands of hostile governments. (How exactly that would be effectively weaponized I am unsure but in general, it is better for your enemies to have less information on you rather than more.) Honestly, I believe their China venture is doomed from the start because every major Chinese company has more capital than they do and with how they are used to operating in the US, they will be non-competitive against their peers in China. I believe that after researching Chinese regulations and laws, and if they come to understand the culture of genetic testing in China, they will conclude their China venture idea to be unfeasible and abandon it. If not, however, if they briefly look over the rules and decide to try to muscle it anyway for the riches that may await them in China, they will be in for a world of hurt. Every Chinese director there can tell them what I'm telling you but all of them have decided to keep silent and just say that they don't know because they don't want to be seen as that guy who's trying to keep American competition out of China by telling them that they can't win.
The 2 Emory professors are suing Emory and maintaining their innocence. I don't care for the details so there might be more info I don't know about.
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broadsword
Brigadier
LOL. China's development today was not even at the level Japan was 40 years ago.
antiterror13
Brigadier
But Japan has been stagnant since 1990s, almost 30 years ago
and China is already ~3x bigger than Japan in term of GDP, imagine when China has reached the full potential
Japan has a wonderfully developed commercial technology base which China still cannot be considered equal to. What China is missing in these regards are well established brand names with the associated technological prowess that come from decades of continued operation which make consumers believe in a cultivated dominance of the relevant technologies and pushing further.
Japan isn't immune to failures and scandals... check out Toyota, Toshiba, Nippon Steel for just a few total failures and scandals. Are all Japanese organisations and Japan as a whole incompetent and/or worthless because of these? No and certainly NOBODY is even hinting at this. Fourty even twenty years ago, the "Jap crap" echoes would have been heard all around the western world in their arrogance but not today. What's the difference? Time. Time alone and the continuous operation of Japanese brand names have served as worthy embassadors and even though Japanese, German, American, Russian... companies all engage in industrial espionage and reverse engineering and have been shown and proven in the past, they do not suffer today as much as Chinese ones. The reason, common people have fewer examples of Chinese technological dominance and quite a lot of the opposite thanks to propagated internet slandering. China needs more Huawei like companies to play in every commercial field for many decades to shake off the "made in China" schtick and make this thread totally ignored. We can create one for every nation of the world or at least every nation that participates and competes.
Of course the other end is political but that's a whole different game.
Japan isn't immune to failures and scandals... check out Toyota, Toshiba, Nippon Steel for just a few total failures and scandals. Are all Japanese organisations and Japan as a whole incompetent and/or worthless because of these? No and certainly NOBODY is even hinting at this. Fourty even twenty years ago, the "Jap crap" echoes would have been heard all around the western world in their arrogance but not today. What's the difference? Time. Time alone and the continuous operation of Japanese brand names have served as worthy embassadors and even though Japanese, German, American, Russian... companies all engage in industrial espionage and reverse engineering and have been shown and proven in the past, they do not suffer today as much as Chinese ones. The reason, common people have fewer examples of Chinese technological dominance and quite a lot of the opposite thanks to propagated internet slandering. China needs more Huawei like companies to play in every commercial field for many decades to shake off the "made in China" schtick and make this thread totally ignored. We can create one for every nation of the world or at least every nation that participates and competes.
Of course the other end is political but that's a whole different game.
broadsword
Brigadier
The very sad thing is there some Chinese who take constructive criticism of the quality of Chinese products as an insult. They hide their heads in the sand and live in total denial. You just have to look at the one or two stars ratings of Chinese products on Amazon to understand the problem. The gap and cost between one and four stars is so narrow you wonder why the factories do not take another step. You want consumers to be hard wired that made in China is as good as made in Germany. That is the selling point. Telling a shopper for a Chinese brand of shampoo to trust its quality because Huawei makes great smartphones will not sink in.
No it won't sink in until there's a Huawei equivalent in Shampoo etc. I know this is a particularly frustrating aspect of what we could describe as modern Chinese manufacturing culture. There is a serious deficiency in planning and building for the long term. Many, in fact probably most Chinese businesses exist only to make profits. They may be producing something because they have the ability to and have some economic or technical advantages. Rarely do people get into a certain line of business because they have pride in developing a product. This is where bad management and decision policies can destroy a company and a nation's reputation.
I'm generalising and being selective here but there are plenty examples of hopeless product design (functional) showing a lack of awareness. In my line of work, a supplier uncovered a serious cost cutting measure put into place by a Chinese supplier who failed to inform them and resulted in multi million dollar material damages as a result of steel material failure in the mining sector. This is an example of one poor player ruining the reputation of many honest and decent players just by association. If Chinese government can limit these poor examples, as a whole, Chinese industry would be increasingly considered in positive light.
But we're also ignoring the other side where Chinese products need to be competitive somehow and taking shortcuts and shaving margins are the only levers to play with in order to be competitive and remain in business. There's plenty of examples of low quality foreign products too along with a great deal of fine quality Chinese products. We just never hear of those even though they exist in perfect balance to the rest of the quality ecosystem. Cheap prices almost certainly mean cheap quality, high prices and manufacturer reputation STILL do not guarantee quality. Overall Chinese manufactured goods have experienced improving quality levels. Compare products from the 80s to those of the 00s and today. Manufacturing abilities converge to a point that is determined by currently available technologies and science. Choosing where to toggle your levels depend on the economics of your business. The issue here is China simply manufactures a great deal of all the world's commercial products including but not limited to the low end and cheap ones. Compare a $100 Chinese tool with a $100 Russian or India tool and the Chinese one is objectively WAY better thanks to manufacturing scale. Economics, not science. But do those Indian and Russian tools exist in your hardware store in the west? No. Why? Because they're NOT competitive price/quality but they do exist!
The irony is the whole made in China quality joke is the reason for China's economic miracle producing according to scale. Japan used it in the past and still do in some areas.
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vesicles
Colonel
you see? Hacking is what people all around the world do when they try to catch up with the leaders.
The Chinese seem to be doing a lot of it now because they are trying to catch up. In the 1970’s and 80’s, the Japanese were caught doing a lot of hacking because they were trying to catch up. In the 17th and 18th centuries, the British were caught a lot because they were trying to catch up. The British sent spies all around the world, trying to steal any technology from tea planting to textile manufacturing. And later, the American spies “borrow” things to start their economy. China is simply the latest offender.
does it make right simply because everyone does it? No
do the past offenders have the moral high ground to accuse the current offender? Also no
I’m sure 20-30 years from now, the Chinese will start accusing others of stealing their techs. What goes around comes around...
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