East Asian Infantry

Mr_C

Junior Member
VIP Professional
chopsticks said:
what do you mean by "patrol out of formation"???

i think u r referring to Guhkas... at least thats how its read (im not sure of the spelling too!! haha) they're mostly from Nepal (and surrounding regions..)

Guhkas are one of THE most hardened troops in the whole world. they're really crazy... my country has employed some of them here in our police force. also, we give their army some training in our camps... i witness some of their training once... they run around with full battle gear, uphill/downhill, NON-STOP. some even with extra 17 litre jerry-cans strapped to their field packs (or so i heard).. the reason they're tough is because their country has really rough terrain and low oxygen.
they're a breed ahead of China/NK troops in terms of hardened-ness and fitness, who are then a breed ahead of Nato troops.

I worked with them before and when they get shot at, they bloody run straight at it. Crazy sons of bitches. They r though coz the poms select only the toughest during recruiting, one of their recruitment test is to carry 40kg (i think from memory) of rocks in a basket on their backs and climb up hill for about 15km in a certain period of time...and that time limit is not long. I feel sorry for them sometimes coz they r so tough and nice...........but they r in reality cannon fodder.

chopsticks said:
what do you mean by "patrol out of formation"???

and i don't agree that our defence is military ties and not military... (we don't trust foreign powers to protect us after "impregnable" fortress fell so foolishly to japs when we had 3 to 1 numerical advantage) Singapore armed forces is very hardcore about tech and toys and has been spending alot on it.. just that the training for infantry has gotten a little softer... "Prince Soldier" as they call it in Taiwan haha...
I mean no disrespect.... and u said it urself hardcore about their tech and toys and i completely agree. I remember observing a section patrolling in formation at the beginning but then patrolled out of formation.... probably because they were lazy... and I am sure not all singaporean infantry who r lazy. But my general impression was that the men were too at ease. Yes i know "Tai Zi Bing":)
Well i don;t wanna get into the politics of singaporean strategy and i know the military is a prime equation of Singaporean military defence. What i meant was that the Singaporean Government would used it's diplomatic, geopolitical and economic signficance, which is of great interest to many other nations, as a strategy to prevent someone from military attacking them.
 
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Delphi84

New Member
VIP Professional
Hi Mr. C
Of course if u wanna do something like Singapore vs China or USA, it is totally out of question and context. But if it is to deal with potential agressors around Singapore, the answer is definitely can. Regarding the training is soft or watever, can u share which unit is dat(by vocation) or isit u observe at SWBTA? U must not forget we are a conscript army in which ppls from all walks of life are put together to receiving training, whether u a rich minister son to a begger's son. Thus considering our conscript term of 2 yrs full time and 13 yrs reservists, actually is deemed as a continual training package. Bcos u can't learn much in 2 yrs eventhough Singapore's conscript system seems to be the longer than perhaps Finland, Swiss. Fo example, I personally have finished my two yrs term. In this two yrs I have at least thrown grenades, when for 2 or 3 recoiless rifle live firing and at least 5 or 6 5.56mm live firing, all accomplished within two yrs. This is considered quite a broad base coverage for 2 yrs and I will go back for more of these training next 13 yrs.

I don't understand wat u mean by patrol out of formation. Let's not forget Australia have different terrain as Singapore, thus u cannot expect them to patrol in Aussie sytle for a typical section. Personally within these 2 yrs I have trained in Brunei, Australia. I have also got through at least five battalion exercise and a bridage exercise. Not to mention even more company level training. In Singapore, each battalion is expected to participate in final evaluation exercise in which they are graded, the failures are expected to take till they past! For the patrol out of formation guys, I can only say prepare for remedial trainings!:D :D :roll:

Personally, I think SAF have transformed from a Regimental army to a more training-based one. For example, for my batch we have lesser foot drill parades or trainings, and those "tekkan" sessions. Instead they are substituted with perhaps more range and more field exercise:D :eek:
 

adeptitus

Captain
VIP Professional
-_-;; Singapore is not in danger of being invaded by anyone. At most they might get into a small scuffle over some tiny islands with Malaysia, but realistically they're not going to invade each other.

Most people know the Gurkhas served in British army and even had a brigade in Hong Kong. But few know that they also serve India and Singapore today. Here's some info and few photos of the Gurkha Contingent in SG:
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And their recruitment requirements:

Formed in 1949 with 142 men, the contingent has since grown to over 2,000 in size in 2003 [1]. Young men are recruited in Nepal at the British Gurkha camp in Pokhara. About 370 are selected annually in December out of a pool of over 20,000 applications [2], with about 140 eventually joining the GC while the rest will go to the British Army.

Some of the basic physical admission criteria in the recruitment camp include:

* Aged 17½ to 21
* Minimum height of 160 centimetres
* Minimum weight of 50 kilogrammes
* Chest circumference of 79 centimetres with minimum 5 centimetres expansion
* No applicants needing eyesight aids will be accepted.
* Generally good oral hygiene, with up to two filling, false teeth or a single gap.

Applicants are expected to possess a minimum education level of SLC 3rd Division. Upon registration, they have to go through a battery of physical and mental assessments prior to selection, including oral and written tests in the English language, a mathematics test, a board interview and medical examination. The annual selection process, which normally takes 17 days but is spread over four months due to conditions in Nepal, will then assign recruits to either the GC or the British Army.

Upon successful selection, GC trainees are flown to Singapore, and housed at the permanent base of the GC at Mount Vernon Camp where they will receive a ten-month long training before being subsequently deployed for duties. The training phase of GC officers is relatively unknown, although they have been noted to utilise the jungles in Pulau Tekong for training. Arrangements with the Brunei police has allowed Gurkha officers to conduct jungle training in Brunei for several years. Training from external agencies were also received from the Singapore Armed Forces' School of Military Medicine for medical courses [3], and the Aikido Shinju-kai Singapore for lessons in Aikido [4], amongst others.

<snip>
Less publicly known, is the GC's role in helping to train fellow officers in the police force, as well as other agencies including that of the military. Their excellent fitness, combat and survival skills were imparted through various courses, in return for the help they have similarly received from other agencies in training GC troopers. Gurkhas occasionally lead police Senior Officer trainees in runs and other physical training.

===================================

As you can see since they're only taking 370 recruits out of 20,000 applicants, they can afford to be very choosy. You can get disqualified for needing eye glasses or have bad teeth. >_<
 

sumdud

Senior Member
VIP Professional
East Asian Infantry:
PLA: Tough training, good equipment. High discipline. Going through revolution. Native guns.
KPA: Tough training, but bad malnutrition. (When they march, it's uniformed, but they shake, so bad it hurts to see, they can't even hold their rifles tight.) Equipment is not very good. High discipline, multilingial?
ROKA: Moral varies. (There was an article on the news here saying some general forced his men to eat their own sh!t.) Better equipment. Native gun.
JSDF: Very good equipment. Native gun. But their uniform.......... Their strategies aren't very good, however, and I doubt of its moral.
ROCA: Good equipment. Bad morale. Low discipline for sure. (Water bottles instead of grenades? Comm'on....)

Gukha:
Bad teeth? Wow, that's some requirement...........
This is like selling out on the country, though. The best men aren't in Nepal, but in Britian or Singapore......
But aren't they good fighters?!
 

Mr_C

Junior Member
VIP Professional
Delphi84 said:
Hi Mr. C
For the patrol out of formation guys, I can only say prepare for remedial trainings!:D :D :roll:

I agree, like i said before, i think those men that i observed were lazy... u get that sometimes. The men i observed were supposed to be patrolling in arrowhead formation (not sure what u guys call it). but then the whole men in teh section just started to walk almost whereever they wanted and they were laughing. Which seems not good... like being lazy.

Oh yes i was just comparing soldiers that i observed... not abt singapore vs anyone.
 

Gollevainen

Colonel
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Registered Member
I agree, like i said before, i think those men that i observed were lazy... u get that sometimes. The men i observed were supposed to be patrolling in arrowhead formation (not sure what u guys call it). but then the whole men in teh section just started to walk almost whereever they wanted and they were laughing. Which seems not good... like being lazy.

We finns have this military term "jermuilu" which is a weird combination of total disrespect to authority but as a same time some sort of independent thickheaded decision to take care of your duty, just whitout the outer layers of disipline. In artillery, mixed whit equally mystical and contraversial "fire position spirit" the result may look to outsider in most worst light. Our gungroup was one of the "worst" in my battery. We always complained about everything, and everytime when the platoon leader was out of sight, we dropped out of all the bowing, hardly never set up the ammunition guard and always sitting and lazying on top of the trailing legs...and when i was the gunleader, the disipline was in it's nearly non-existing...in its outer layer..but did it affect our fighting skills? never, My gun was always the fastest of the whole battalion (tough in our training time, there where only one and half fire batteryes) and our battery were the best in the artillery's finnish championship games (it didn't help us as the HQ battery screwed up and we lost the battalion competition...:mad: tough our brigade won the brigade level contest but that wasen't so well apraised as the previos one...)
The same "jermuilu" was apparent in the WWII and we won one the seccond largest army in the world..so quess what i'm trying to say in here is that never make assumptions on basing of ostensible lazyness...it is the combat results that matters...
 

Mr_C

Junior Member
VIP Professional
Gollevainen said:
We finns have this military term "jermuilu" which is a weird combination of total disrespect to authority but as a same time some sort of independent thickheaded decision to take care of your duty, just whitout the outer layers of disipline. In artillery, mixed whit equally mystical and contraversial "fire position spirit" the result may look to outsider in most worst light. Our gungroup was one of the "worst" in my battery. We always complained about everything, and everytime when the platoon leader was out of sight, we dropped out of all the bowing, hardly never set up the ammunition guard and always sitting and lazying on top of the trailing legs...and when i was the gunleader, the disipline was in it's nearly non-existing...in its outer layer..but did it affect our fighting skills? never, My gun was always the fastest of the whole battalion (tough in our training time, there where only one and half fire batteryes) and our battery were the best in the artillery's finnish championship games (it didn't help us as the HQ battery screwed up and we lost the battalion competition...:mad: tough our brigade won the brigade level contest but that wasen't so well apraised as the previos one...)
The same "jermuilu" was apparent in the WWII and we won one the seccond largest army in the world..so quess what i'm trying to say in here is that never make assumptions on basing of ostensible lazyness...it is the combat results that matters...

I know what u mean.... hey i whine all the time too. But being lazy in an artillery unit may not be as dangerous as being lazy in an infantry unit because maintaining in formation may just allow u to survive and prevail over the enemy. That few seconds required to get back into formation may mean life or death. Each soldier in a infantry formation has a specific role to play and their weapons r tactically placed to maximze their effectiveness. And just from experience... when u allow discipline to be reduced.. it will only result in more reduction in discipline amongst the people u command. Personally i would rather command a bunch of soldiers who r weaker but with the utmost discipline, than a bunch of soldiers who r stronger but lacking in discipline. Simply because u will always be sure of their condition which will allow u to make more accurate assessment of both ur soldiers and the enemy's. And less of a pain in the arse to command.
 

Gollevainen

Colonel
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Registered Member
Well i don't actually mean total lack of disipline, trhust me it is a key element to get anything working, even military related internet forum;)

But my example is more of that the "lowering of disipline" or at least it's outer layers is sort of prize for good service. I rather be under command of leader who i know and trust, one who dosen't need to show of his authority than those bricks who do nothing than just yell and bark...those usually are the worst leaders when it comes to the actual fullfilment of the task. I have some personal experience of those kind of dudes.

This is however totally different case when the "new fishes" are introducted in the military system. When they learn to do the most ridicilous task under command, it usually means that they do the important taskes as well. After when this level of disipline is achived then the "outer layers" of disipline can be slowly removed. That doesen't mean that the disipline is gone, only that there is no need to show off it all the time. i bet that the military unit where everyone knows each others (including the leaders) will work far more better than unit which concerates too much on the marching in straight line....
 

Delphi84

New Member
VIP Professional
Hmm...... agree in a conscript system, different ppls have different mentality thus some may be more slack and lazy compared to the others. For example last time, I was in this section of mine, the guys are veri slack and can't be bothered. Everytime there is field ex, they will find excuses to get out of it, like pretend to be ill( their techniques to fein sickness is rather creative:D ), or pretend to injure themselves in the field. In the end it is the commanders that was reprimanded for not 'motivating them'!! Mr. C I do not agree that ppl belonging to division support arms can affoed to be slack. Because everi one in a unit is vital and significant to the survival, operational of his unit, for example, lets say the HQ ppls are inefficient, u may not get resupply of food, water, ammos or even con. wires for ur fortified postion! Thus no one can be lazy. Mine personal experience is that satying with those lazy ppls in the section can be veri demoralizing. Bcos, coming back from the fields for abt 5 days, dirty,tired and seeing them relax and clean is veri dis-heartening!!1:confused: :(
 

Mr_C

Junior Member
VIP Professional
Gollevainen said:
Well i don't actually mean total lack of disipline, trhust me it is a key element to get anything working, even military related internet forum;)

But my example is more of that the "lowering of disipline" or at least it's outer layers is sort of prize for good service. I rather be under command of leader who i know and trust, one who dosen't need to show of his authority than those bricks who do nothing than just yell and bark...those usually are the worst leaders when it comes to the actual fullfilment of the task. I have some personal experience of those kind of dudes.

This is however totally different case when the "new fishes" are introducted in the military system. When they learn to do the most ridicilous task under command, it usually means that they do the important taskes as well. After when this level of disipline is achived then the "outer layers" of disipline can be slowly removed. That doesen't mean that the disipline is gone, only that there is no need to show off it all the time. i bet that the military unit where everyone knows each others (including the leaders) will work far more better than unit which concerates too much on the marching in straight line....

I know what u mean... i don't really mean shout at the soldier just to get them to smarten up... u usually just have to tell them quitely and politely...which is much better and more effective. Well as a grunt u never get to choose which officer commands u and as an officer u never get to choose who u command. So as a grunt... just shut up and do ur job. As an officer be very strict on all things in the beginning. But anyway i know what u mean, i do not know how to describe in words but i can picture u and ur men at work... because i m pretty much the same... but never got that chance in infantry.

Hey i think we r off topic.
 
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