Early China: History, Legends, and Myths

lucretius said:

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I guess that answers my question of where you get your ridiculous ideas.

Those guys are comparing a dilapidated Chinese village with a major tourist site in Japan, and wondering why the Chinese villagers don't maintain their buildings as well as the tourist attractions in Japan?

I don't even know how to respond to such stupidity.

Sorry to say this, but if your are being informed by these kinds of agenda-driven videos, then you have no clue what China is actually like.

lucretius said:

Personally I would love to see the Chinese take a bit more pride in the cultural remains that have survived. Make an effort to take ownership, maintain them and where needed make sympathetic restorations.

The Japanese are very good at this and the evidence is everywhere all over Japan.

I hope to see a similar awareness and sense of responsibility emerge and flourish in China.

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Yes that is true I hate to admit but in this area the Japanese did it very well. They face the same problem young people are moving out from villages and leaving the old behind But they did try to revitalized the country side by offering it as tourist attraction and relive their old festivals as an attraction.

Actually festivals are originated in China way back in antiquity during the emperor Yu time as a away to unite people for the common cause and common good
Of course the Japanese has no problem with cultural revolution and self hate generated by western incursion and China's inability to resists it
So they considered anything old as old fashion and irrelevant

But I guess with new prosperity and new found self confidence more and more people start to appreciate their heritage I hope they can revive those tradition and festival that is forgotten.
There are plenty of Chinese festival and tradition that are still practice by overseas Chinese community. I will posted in Chinese tradition thread

I just watch this interesting video from NHK Asia insight about how a bunch of artist try to revitalize an old village. Beautifully made by NHK, I guess it struck a cord with them as they faced the same problem. Click this link there is video in this page not available yet in youtube

Working to Revive China's Depopulated Villages


Depopulation of rural areas has become a serious issue in China, where economic growth has led the vast majority of youth to migrate to urban eras. Homes and fields that had supported families for generations are now falling into disrepair, with only a handful of villagers left to maintain them. Although the younger generation shows no signs of returning, outside groups are instead finding creative uses for the rustic area: Artists have recently established studios in the village, inspired by the rich history and nature that abound there. In this episode, we explore the current state of China's rural farming villages, and the movements that are bringing new life to them.

Thank you for the link... it makes for interesting reading.

Personally I would rather reside in the countryside than urban areas. China has vast rural treasures that hopefully can be promoted and appreciated as the population rediscovers it's roots.

solarz said:

I guess that answers my question of where you get your ridiculous ideas.

Those guys are comparing a dilapidated Chinese village with a major tourist site in Japan, and wondering why the Chinese villagers don't maintain their buildings as well as the tourist attractions in Japan?

I don't even know how to respond to such stupidity.

Sorry to say this, but if your are being informed by these kinds of agenda-driven videos, then you have no clue what China is actually like.

Click to expand...

That Video link has raised quite a few Hmmmm's for me.
Those guys reckon there is no shared responsibility into maintaining apartment buildings.That might have been the case in the early days. In more recent times would'nt apartment Corporate bodies similar to those in the west to take care of maintenance be formed.

Talking about cars, a used car dealer friend of mine who imports cars from Japan says many of those vehicles of 2-3yrs old have never had a, or regular oil change as well because their owners did not consider it worth while.

I would like to ask you something that is OT but Ive always wondered but hesitant to ask, and that is, given that China has been ruled by outsiders who established their own dynasties , how receptive would the Chinese have been to the Japanese one had it been less brutal and better thought out?

lucretius said:

Thank you for the link... it makes for interesting reading.

Personally I would rather reside in the countryside than urban areas. China has vast rural treasures that hopefully can be promoted and appreciated as the population rediscovers it's roots.

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Me to, Where I live there are only about 5 families within a close proximity in area that I live has the land mass of HK / Singapore and barely more than 1200 ,though I do like New York.

B.I.B. said:

That Video link has raised quite a few Hmmmm's for me.
I would like to ask you something that is OT but Ive always wondered but hesitant to ask, and that is, given that China has been ruled by outsiders who established their own dynasties , how receptive would the Chinese have been to the Japanese one had it been less brutal and better thought out?

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Well those outsider that rule China think themselves as Chinese first. Because the superiority Chinese civilization at that time . They might be foreign by blood but culturally they are so much influence by Chinese culture that they continue more or less the Chinese way of life , form of government, culture, religion
Eventually they themselves assimilate into the much larger Chinese population that not much trace left of say Manchu or Mongol

Japanese are different they want to colonize China as first step to conquer the world
And they don't think themselves as subordinate to China even though they copied almost everything and passed it as Japanese culture They disdain China because of backwardness at that time and don't want to associate with China like the slogan leave Asia enter Europe. They think themselves as honorary white
"Datsu-A Ron" (

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: 脫亞論,

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: 脱亜論) was an

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published in the

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on March 16, 1885 arguing that

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should abandon the conservative governments of

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and

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and align itself with the

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. The title "Datsu-A Ron" has been translated in a variety of ways, including "Good-bye Asia," "De-Asianization," "Shedding Asia," and "Leaving Asia."

It was written anonymously, probably by author and educator . The editorial was included in the second volume of Fukuzawa's complete works in 1933, and in 1996, used methods to analyze "Datsu-A Ron" and concluded the writer was or Fukuzawa.

There is always 2 strand of Japanese thinking one of them is antagonistic to China and one of them is more sympathetic to China .Actually up to Tokugawa the relation between China and Japan is cordial. Only after Meiji with the successful Japanese transformation relation deteriorated. In modern time
Tomiichi Murayama, Yukio Hatoyama can be considered China friendly But they were booted out

B.I.B. said:

That Video link has raised quite a few Hmmmm's for me.
Those guys reckon there is no shared responsibility into maintaining apartment buildings.That might have been the case in the early days. In more recent times would'nt apartment Corporate bodies similar to those in the west to take care of maintenance be formed.

Talking about cars, a used car dealer friend of mine who imports cars from Japan says many of those vehicles of 2-3yrs old have never had a, or regular oil change as well because their owners did not consider it worth while.

I would like to ask you something that is OT but Ive always wondered but hesitant to ask, and that is, given that China has been ruled by outsiders who established their own dynasties , how receptive would the Chinese have been to the Japanese one had it been less brutal and better thought out?

Click to expand...

Pretty much what Hendrix said. I myself is Mongol/Manchu on one side and Han on the other. Never considered not Chinese by the Manchu or mongol side.

B.I.B. said:

I would like to ask you something that is OT but Ive always wondered but hesitant to ask, and that is, given that China has been ruled by outsiders who established their own dynasties , how receptive would the Chinese have been to the Japanese one had it been less brutal and better thought out?

Click to expand...

The Japanese did not end up ruling China because they lost. The Mongols were arguably just as brutal as the Japanese, and the Yuan Dynasty is considered a Chinese dynasty.

The Mongols had competent rulers. Kublai Khan won the loyalty of many Chinese generals and officials, which was critical in the establishment of a stable government. The Japanese were never able to achieve that, despite establishing the puppet state of Manchukuo.

I have no doubt the Ming hated the Mongols just as much as late-20th century Chinese hated the Japanese, but 800 years tend to mellow a lot of feelings.

I guess the point is that if we read, say, Roman history, you see all these Roman ruins all over Europe and can easily relate / appreciate all that. Europe has had more wars throughout the past 2000 years in general but the ruins managed to survive. China on the other hand managed to maintain loads of historical sites up until the Cultural Revolution, which I think we have to admit is a bit sad. Metaphorically like China was almost winning a 2,000-year race but chose to give up in the last 50 years. If you read the Three Kingdoms from cover to cover, one would marvel at how so many of the cities still retain their same names up to this date, but yet almost none of the actual buildings survived.

Anyway, this is off topic - let's get back to what this thread is about...

I love the wood building specially the Tang architecture But not much left in China these days. Hardly any Tang building left standing. I don't blame CR With constant war and upheaval over centuries it is too much to ask to see 7th century building. But replica will do

Growing up I read the exploit of Tang General See Jin Kui or mandarin Xue Rengui which is a popular hero figure in my community. He is the one who subdue Goguryeo for good

Xue Rengui (: 薛仁贵; : 薛仁貴; : Xuē Rénguì; : Hsüeh1 Jen2-kuei4; 614–683), formal name Xue Li (薛禮) but went by the of Rengui, was one of the most famous Chinese generals during the early , due to references to him in popular literature. During his career, he participated in successful campaigns against remnants of and against , with only one major flaw on his record which was an unsuccessful campaign against in 670, where another general in his army refused to listen to Xue's advice and charged ahead and caused the majority of the army to be lost.
Anyway they just uploaded the NHK video about how artist and local people try to revitalized Chinese Qing era village