Defeating China's Anti-Access Strategy: The US Perspective Part

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Jeff Head

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you clearly don't understand what Air Sea Battle is if you think the aim is just to defeat PLAN not PRC. I highly suggest you read the article linked AssassinMace, and watch this video
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The commentator in the video sums up Air Sea Battle against China, "it is going to be global, no holds barred, it is going to nasty". EVERYTHING is on the table in this strategy.
It is a dangerous doctrine. It is desperate strategy for a weakened hegemon.
I know a number of people in the US Naval Institute, the War College, and various others who were close to those who developed the doctrine and who have been implementing it.

I choose to believe them.

You can believe whomever you want, but, once again, your own statements reveal your bias almost every time you write..."weakened hegemon," indeed. Phfffft!
 

Jeff Head

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That's why you can't take the politics out of war. Just South Korea and Japan facing the ire of China being attacked for what?

So focusing on China is political.

South Korea and Japan will face an angry China that has been attacked most likely by the US first, the only way Air-Sea will be most effective, that can cause them a lot of trouble and the whole region will be destabilized much worse than anything now that alarms the US about China.

The fact is the chances of the rosy scenario that Air-Sea will find everything is slim at most. You had the might of NATO covering Kosovo and the Serbs were very effective in protecting their assets.

Japan and South Korea or whoever else is going suffering more than the US whether it comes from conventional or nuclear attack.
Air-Sea is not about occupying. It is not about wholly defeating the PRC.

It is about defeating the PLAN or other belligerent forces in an engagement in the western Pacific without it going nuclear.

That is the whole point as envisioned...and it certainly is not about a preemptive strike against China.

Sorry aMace, but you and others have it all wrong. I know a lot of people "theorize," publically about what they think it might be...but it is not those things.

If it came down to either of them being attacked at sea by the PLAN...which I believe we all hope never happens...then Air-Sea would come into effect to attempt to defeat that attack and do so decisively, and Korea and/or Japan would welcome the help according to the treaty obligations.

Those are the kinds of scenarios Air-Sea is designed to respond to. All this other is simply saber rattling and trying to think of ways to either vilify the US over it, or sensationalize things so there is public outcry against that sensationalism. And perhaps that will work...but the heart of Air-Sea is not about the US either unilaterally or laterally taking preemptive action against the PRC, or about trying to defeat the whole of the PRC in such an engagement.

A lot of folks theorizing, postulating, and out and out propagandizing may effect folks who do not actually know what it is about...which means US planners have to take that into account...but it does not accurately represent what the plans call for in any case.

And...my guess is this discussion is just going to get deeper and deeper into the anti-American animus, so I will let these statements be my statement about it.
 

shen

Senior Member
Jeff, everybody is biased. Anybody who paid a visit to your website can see your bias clearly. The intellectually honest, as well as wise position IMHO, is to show your bias in the open, let everybody know where you are coming from. At the same time, interact and exchange views with people who disagree with you, and keep an open mind. beside, colorful languages make a discussion more interesting :)
 
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shen

Senior Member
Air-Sea is not about occupying. It is not about wholly defeating the PRC.

It is about defeating the PLAN or other belligerent forces in an engagement in the western Pacific without it going nuclear.

That is the whole point as envisioned...and it certainly is not about a preemptive strike against China.

Sorry aMace, but you and others have it all wrong. I know a lot of people "theorize," publically about what they think it might be...but it is not those things.

If it came down to either of them being attacked at sea by the PLAN...which I believe we all hope never happens...then Air-Sea would come into effect to attempt to defeat that attack and do so decisively, and Korea and/or Japan would welcome the help according to the treaty obligations.

Those are the kinds of scenarios Air-Sea is designed to respond to. All this other is simply saber rattling and trying to think of ways to either vilify the US over it, or sensationalize things so there is public outcry against that sensationalism. And perhaps that will work...but the heart of Air-Sea is not about the US either unilaterally or laterally taking preemptive action against the PRC, or about trying to defeat the whole of the PRC in such an engagement.

A lot of folks theorizing, postulating, and out and out propagandizing may effect folks who do not actually know what it is about...which means US planners have to take that into account...but it does not accurately represent what the plans call for in any case.

And...my guess is this discussion is just going to get deeper and deeper into the anti-American animus, so I will let these statements be my statement about it.

Bryan McGrath, in the video I linked, is one of the biggest public backer of Sea Air Battle. He is not attacking Sea Air, he wants it implemented. He tells you exactly what Sea Air Battle envisions in the video. In a conflict with the PRC, the US cannot fight by the Cold War rules of limited engagement, the US cannot allow PRC to use interior lines of communication, the US will fly deep penetration attacks located in Chinese mainland, even if those attacks can look like attack against Chinese nuclear forces. Why don't you just watch the video?

as for my characterization of the US as the hegemon. that's inspired by good commentators in the video. in discussion whether the US can afford the tremendous cost necessary to persecute Sea Air Battle, "when you are the hegemon, and you can print your own money, its bloody difficult to go bankrupt. "
 
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Jeff Head

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Jeff, everybody is biased. Anybody who paid a visit to your website can see your bias clearly. The intellectually honest, as well as wise position IMHO, is to show your bias in the open, let everybody know where you are coming from. At the same time, interact and exchange views with people who disagree with you, and keep an open mind. beside, colorful languages make a discussion more interesting :)
Of course everyone has heir biases. And allowing your bias to show in a manner that is reasoned and respectful is good for reasoned dialog. That was not my issue.

I indicated that how you use your bias is the issue. Colorful language does not necessarily help an argument at all. Much more often it is a defense mechanism used to try and bully a weak argument onto others.

As far as Bryan McGath is concerned, one can defend a concept, but not do so on a basis that is grounded in reality, or in the intent of the concept. Advocating for any kind of nuclear attack on China, or any preemptive strike on China is not intended with how Sea Air was developed or intended...those are his opinions about how it should be implemented...and a whole lot of people disagree with him. China has nukes and will not hesitate to use them igf nuked. China has a huge landmass and the resources to shrug off other pre-emptive strikes not associated wioth the intent of the Sea Air battle being fought.

Airr Sea is meant to defeat the aggressor force in place, and ensure that it is not readly reinforced or resupplied. It is meant to do so in the Western Pacific once hostile action has been initiated against the US or one of its allies.

But, as I indicated, 'nuff said. Talk of the US "having" to Nuke China will ultimately only lead to arguments, bashing of nationalities, and attract the ire of the moderators...and justifiably so.
 

SampanViking

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Well, I am going to put in my threepeneth in on this subject.
There is one overriding factor that will have a major determination on the effectiveness of China's anti access stratagems and that of course, is the precise nature of the opponent that they will be looking to deny access too.

The main opponent is of course the USA and its formidable military machine and yet when you follow the news coming from Washington, it is news that is really only in one direction: Cuts, Cuts and more Cuts, with one series of major cuts (many representing sums greater than the entire military budgets of many middle and even top income nations) which seem to be nothing more that the set up for even greater cuts in the future.

Even in recent weeks, after several years of progressive cuts worth hundreds of billions of dollars, we are told that at 15% of military forces need to be cut, even before the effects of sequestration kick in. We have the Pentagon briefing against the F35 project and warning that it could be scrapped entirely. We also have warnings that to try and minimise the effects of cuts on current capability, that R&D funding for future weapons may need to be abolished.

I am also aware of the bizarre language of the Asian Repivot, which talks blandly of repositioning 60% of the USN into the Pacific Theatre. That is a strange thing to say and astonishingly noncommittal.
If you are planning to counter a potential threat, you analyse that threat and design a mission to counteract it. You then package the force you need to ensure that you can successfully complete the mission if required. This is something that you measure in terms of design capability and then in terms of Fleets, Battle Groups and Airwings. In other words real capabilities expressed in terms of real formations. Simply to talk about percentages is meaningless waffle. Hopefully they intend to round the percentage up to the nearest whole ship?

I read this as meaning that the Pentagon knows it is facing such savage, rolling cuts from now and into the foreseeable future, that it no longer has the confidence to express its policy in terms of actual capabilities or actual ship/aircraft numbers. Instead it simply issues a bland assurance that whatever the Inventory levels may fall too, that 60% will be deployed in the Pacific.

How much faith then can we put into talk and announcements of new wonder weapons and next generation systems etc? Probably not very much.

It seems increasingly likely that the story of the rest of this decade and beyond will be a USN, Airforce and Marine Corps that will be progressively shrunk and trying to maintain its present capabilities by operating only its current weapons and platforms and unlikely to modernise significantly for the foreseeable future. We are aware of problems in all US services in being able to maintain quality and maintain specialists and this is only likely to increase with time, further degrading US Capability

In contrast we have a PLA now entering the second half of its total modernisation and completing its radical qualitative revolution.

At the end of the day, simple mathematics and finance may well prove the only Anti Access Strategy that China needs!
 
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