CV-18 Fujian/003 CATOBAR carrier thread

[Mulong]

View attachment 72354

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It seems that there is no hole，so I think she has only two lifts.

 

[Richard Santos]

Steam turbines and propeller shafts remain the same whether the steam is generated in a nuclear reactor or in oil-fired boilers.

Steam turbines driven by oil fired boilers would almost certainly use much higher steam temperature and pressure for better thermal efficiency, than steam turbine driven by nuclear reactors.

It seem unlikely to me this ship and any future Chinese nuclear powered carrier could possibly share the same steam turbine design.

 

[foxmulder]

So, some observations. ...
View attachment 72288
Left is 003, middle is 003, rightmost carrier is kitty hawk.

The angle of the runway on 003 seems to be very close to that of the 002. While there is a slight difference on the drawing, in reality there may be no difference, due to imprecise measurement.
However, the difference between 003 and KH is so big that I doubt errors can be that big. It's likely that 003 will simply have runway that's less angled than KH or US carriers in general.

Yellow circles represent two points of interest. One seems to be a slight ledge on the port side. Such a protrusion is not visible on 002 but sometimes similar to it can be observed on some US carriers. It's possible the wait catapult will be positioned there.
Also, if positioned there, then the whole runway will be longer, basically as long as KH one, as it has to have enough length to support
the catapult length from the yellow circle to the edge of the runway.

The other yellow circle marks two holes for what seem to be weapons elevators. If the design is anything similar to 002, then the hangar should also stop right below those weapons elevators. Which would likely make it only slightly longer than the hangar on 002. Just how much longer is hard to tell. But possibly less than 10 meters longer.

Hangar width can't be assessed from these images, and the blue squares drawn on ships are NOT there to represent hangar width.
But from some of the earlier images, I remember hangar wall width seemed to be under 30 meters. So a bit wider than 002, but certainly still closer to 002 hangar width than to US carrier hangar widths.

Finally, the most recent images showing the rear elevator shows two things. When i sized everything up, the opening to the rest of the carrier - i got a measurement suggesting the width of the elevator opening is more or less exactly as wide as on one 002. If it is wider, than it's perhaps by a meter, not more. (these short red lines DO NOT represent hangar opening widths)

The short red lines represent general position of the rear elevator. Which seems to be exactly in the same spot as on 002. Given the limited placement options for the forward elevator, due to catapult launch stations, it's also quite likely that the forward elevator will be positioned at the same spot as on 002 as well.

While none of that indicates likelihood of the possibility for the third, port side, elevator - I do believe port side elevator is unlikely. Not only because other elevator layout seems to be the same as 002, which lacks port side elevators, but the position of the port side elevator would have to be quite at the back. Starting perhaps right below the last visible sponson. As seen with Kitty Hawk, such an elevator would usually be a bit more forward, before the ship's deck tapers towards the stern.

I think the hangar will be significantly larger than 002. My guess is ~32m width ~180m length. 32m will let 4 Su-33 to be parked side-by-side. 30m may not.

 

[Totoro]

I think the hangar will be significantly larger than 002. My guess is ~32m width ~180m length. 32m will let 4 Su-33 to be parked side-by-side. 30m may not.

These images of the first upper decks module would suggest otherwise. Also of note, this first module is pretty much at the mid point of the hangar length, so it should represent close to widest part of the hangar. And yet, when compared to observed waterline width measurements, the width between the hangar walls seems to be 26.5 meters. Even if there are some errors in measurements, it's doubtful they can be significant with this fairly decent resolution of the images. So 27 meters in width for the hangar seems like a pretty good estimate for now, if even a tad optimistic.

The hangar might be somewhat longer than kuznetsov's, though. Possibly by 10 meters longer from the forward elevator to forward wall. And possibly by a few meters in the back, though that's idea doesn't really have a basis in photos yet, so it might be zero meters, as well.

 

[Intrepid]

I think the hangar will be significantly larger than 002. My guess is ~32m width ~180m length. 32m will let 4 Su-33 to be parked side-by-side. 30m may not.

What is so important about the size of the hangar and the number and size of the aircraft elevators? A hangar is not completely filled with aircraft. A hangar is a warehouse, a transshipment point and there aircraft are serviced - but not parked. It was different in the past.

An image of an aircraft carrier hangar in use:

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[Kich]

What is so important about the size of the hangar and the number and size of the aircraft elevators? A hangar is not completely filled with aircraft. A hangar is a warehouse, a transshipment point and there aircraft are serviced - but not parked. It was different in the past.

An image of an aircraft carrier hangar in use:

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A dick measuring contest for some to compare 003 to Ford and Nimitz and other western carriers class.

In the end, what should matter for PLAN about this carrier are two things:
1.Being able to launch KJ-600 and other AEW platforms so PLAN could properly engage naval fleet defense for it's surface fleet combatants.
2.Carrying significant numbers of J-15s (and variants) and J-XX and being able to launch them at any desired combat loading.

These two things are what matters and will set 003 apart from 001 and 002.

 

[foxmulder]

A dick measuring contest for some to compare 003 to Ford and Nimitz and other western carriers class.

In the end, what should matter for PLAN about this carrier are two things:
1.Being able to launch KJ-600 and other AEW platforms so PLAN could properly engage naval fleet defense for it's surface fleet combatants.
2.Carrying significant numbers of J-15s (and variants) and J-XX and being able to launch them at any desired combat loading.

These two things are what matters and will set 003 apart from 001 and 002.

Certainly not by me.. lol. It is about capacity. If you want to increase aircraft capacity by 50% (which has been a consistent "rumor") you cannot have same size hangar Moreover, 002's hangar width is ~25-26meters. 003 is clearly wider by a very significant margin.

Elevator number can affect sortie rate but this is a very complex calculation so it is harder to reach a conclusion about what the optimum number and *size* of elevators are.

I may have written this here before, too. Personally, I think future aircraft carriers will be smaller anyway due to UAVs. 076 can be the future. So, as I wrote above, I don't care about the size per se but capacity increase claims + satellite images already make it clear to me hangar is significantly bigger.

 

[vinnan]

Certainly not by me.. lol. It is about capacity. If you want to increase aircraft capacity by 50% (which has been a consistent "rumor") you cannot have same size hangar Moreover, 002's hangar width is ~25-26meters. 003 is clearly wider by a very significant margin.

Elevator number can affect sortie rate but this is a very complex calculation so it is harder to reach a conclusion about what the optimum number and *size* of elevators are.

I may have written this here before, too. Personally, I think future aircraft carriers will be smaller anyway due to UAVs. 076 can be the future. So, as I wrote above, I don't care about the size per se but capacity increase claims + satellite images already make it clear to me hangar is significantly bigger.

Beginning to look like this

 

[Totoro]

Pretty much, yeah. Though it seems they decided to add another bow catapult. Even though they might not use it that often in reality if the space would be better used for deck parking.

 

[Intrepid]

Beginning to look like this

We already know that 003 will have two bow catapults. And because of the island on the aircraft carrier model in Wuhan, we can expect a bridge that has the primary flight control at the front over the captain's bridge.