CV-18 Fujian/003 CATOBAR carrier thread

[Blitzo]

Given that outside this forum I'm usually presenting the "pro-China" case against skeptics and critics of various kinds, and have recently been accused on this forum of having a "China stronk" mentality, it's kind of amusing to learn that I am now "biased" against China for assuming that it's EMALS tech is probably not as mature and reliable as that featured in a carrier due to be commissioned next year, and which is by all accounts still underperforming relative to design objectives.

In any case, the point about China's greater civilian experience with related technologies is well taken. Let's hope we don't have to wait until CV-002 is commissioned before learning which catapult technology it is using.

I don't think jobjed was necessarily saying that "you" are biased, but suggesting that some of the assumptions you made are (in this case) seem to believe "Chinese inferiority as a given". To be fair, I still hold that stance on certain other industries as well, but in this specific application, I think using the USN's difficulties/challenges in getting EMALS to work does not necessarily mean we should assume that the US Navy's level of progress is any sort of hard limit that the Chinese Navy's EM cat development will also face/cannot pull ahead of.


I think anyone who follows your posts would recognize that you're definitely not biased against China or anything, and I find your posts in the relevant topics to be fairly balanced.

 

[kwaigonegin]

Everybody has their own biases but China has been researching this emal for a long time and She has highly developed civilian industry to complement the research institute. So I won't be so easy to depreciate China effort . That what the father of China emal think. Whether it is adapted for CV02 is a political decision and not technical one

Navy expert: China's electromagnetic launch technology no inferior to America

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) 2015-03-10

Rear Admiral Ma Weiming (R), power and electrical engineering specialist of the Navy of the Chinese People's Liberation Army (PLAN). (File Photo)

　　BEIJING, March 10 (ChinaMil) -- Rear Admiral Ma Weiming, power and electrical engineering specialist of the Navy of the Chinese People's Liberation Army (PLAN), said recently that China's catapult-assisted take-off technology for carrier-borne aircraft has no problem at all, and is even no inferior to that of America.

　　The public is very concerned about whether the first truly China-made aircraft carrier will adopt the ski-jump take-off technology of the "Liaoning" aircraft-carrier, or directly use the current top electromagnetic catapult-assisted take-off technology. It's known to all that once breakthroughs are made in the catapult-assisted take-off technology, the combat radius and bomb load of the carrier-borne aircraft will be greatly increased.

　　Rear Admiral Ma Weiming, inventor of China's electromagnetic catapult and specialist in electrical engineering, pointed out that China's catapult-assisted take-off technology for the carrier-borne aircraft has no problem at all and has been proved successful in various repeated tests. He emphasized that China's catapult-assisted take-off technology in hand is no inferior to that of America, and is even more advanced.

　　Ma Weiming has won the First Prize of National Scientific and Technological Progress Award and First Prize of the Military Scientific and Technological Progress Award for a number of times. He is called a "national-treasure-class" technical rear admiral.

　　After the reporter questioned closely about whether the China-made aircraft carrier will use the electromagnetic catapult, Ma Weiming joked, "I am just a worker."

　　Pointing to the one star on his uniform, he said he is just a technical rear admiral and is only responsible for developing useable technologies, and that only high-ranking military officials can decide which kind of technical plan is adopted.

That entire article sounds very propaganda-ish and almost childish like. LOL
I'm not sure if it because it was translated from mandarin etc.
For one no decent engineer or scientist in the world will ever ever say such things as my system 'has no problems at all' especially on an emerging tech. It's very arrogant not to mention naively setting yourself up for failure.

He joked that he is just a lowly worker but yet he is fully confident that China's EMALS is more advanced than the US. He needs to cite examples.

At the end of the day I guess it doesn't matter. It's argument over semantics. My interest is more about real world applications and will interested to see if EMALS will indeed be part of the next carrier.

 

[Hendrik_2000]

That entire article sounds very propaganda-ish and almost childish like. LOL
I'm not sure if it because it was translated from mandarin etc.
For one no decent engineer or scientist in the world will ever ever say such things as my system 'has no problems at all' especially on an emerging tech. It's very arrogant not to mention naively setting yourself up for failure.

He joked that he is just a lowly worker but yet he is fully confident that China's EMALS is more advanced than the US. He needs to cite examples.

At the end of the day I guess it doesn't matter. It's argument over semantics. My interest is more about real world applications and will interested to see if EMALS will indeed be part of the next carrier.

I don't see any propaganda to his statement. He just state matter of factually. What example do you need?. He is the chief of the development team. I bet he has tested the emal system repeatedly. Based on those test , he can make those statement with confidence.

And the country seem to agree. He won first prize and has been publicly commended for his effort.That is a sign that his team succeeded

Just because US still has to ironed out some kink in their system doesn't mean China suffer the same fate.

He is not glib when he said that it is not up to him it up to his superior. I don't know why you said he is joking

Both system are ready but the steam cat team lobby hard to the then defense minister Guo Bo Xiong and he nixed the emal system. But he is now convicted of bribery and the emal team has new lease on life.

Let wait for the result of competition before we judge shall we?

 

[longmarch]

Both could be true, in that technical people think it's ready but for all sorts of non-technical reasons program goes the other way and choose steam one. And my guess is 002 will be a steam one, which would be a pity to me.
If you believe in official accounts, Mr. Ma has done some firsts in the area of electric engineering, has anyone bothered to verify those claims? and there is ample evidence that China has done extensive research in electrical related areas and lead in some of those.

I would give the man some credibility because, how many times do you see a Chinese engineer pumping his chest saying it's ready, especially in military programs. I would say it's very rare in Chinese culture and that kind of assurance carries weight. There is no joking in such circumstances, words have consequences if not being fulfilled.
Of course to those doubters nothing count until seeing one. But to be a real cool observer you need to factor these things in when making a prediction.
Then again just like Mr. Ma said it doesn't mean his work will be adopted as soon as when he sees ready. The decision is simply not with him. And if it's not adopted, we still wouldn't know how technically mature it is, but the question itself becomes more of irrevalant.

 

[taxiya]

I don't see any propaganda to his statement. He just state matter of factually. What example do you need?. He is the chief of the development team. I bet he has tested the emal system repeatedly. Based on those test , he can make those statement with confidence.

And the country seem to agree. He won first prize and has been publicly commended for his effort.That is a sign that his team succeeded

Just because US still has to ironed out some kink in their system doesn't mean China suffer the same fate.

He is not glib when he said that it is not up to him it up to his superior. I don't know why you said he is joking

Both system are ready but the steam cat team lobby hard to the then defense minister Guo Bo Xiong and he nixed the emal system. But he is now convicted of bribery and the emal team has new lease on life.

Let wait for the result of competition before we judge shall we?

That is a popular but often wrong perception by many people both western and Chinese. People hold that kind of perception because they don't have experience to the reality. It is easy to be proud but difficult to face the reality.

I have been working in a top class western company for most of my adult life, watching most other western companies in our industry being overtaken by a Chinese company, one after another. My company is feeling the pressure too, no secret. Personally, it is not a good news for me, but that is the fact.

 

[Preux]

I'll just leave these here...

 

[Blitzo]

I'll just leave these here...

It's been posted and discussed in past threads before.

The modules on the Liaoning in those pictures were judged to be for telemetry/instrumentation purposes during initial testing.

 

[SinoSoldier]

I'll just leave these here...

A laser in the same class of the one you posted would not be meaningful to the defense of a carrier in any way. Even the THEL, which was able to intercept Russian-built rocket artillery and gun-fired rounds, had not made its way onto any warships (yet).

 

[Preux]

Could you direct me to the posts, if you remember? The CV-001 thread is rather dauntingly huge.

I recently discovered Weibo and just saw it on one of the big military Vs and I thought it was new.

 

[kwaigonegin]

what do you think that is? A laser CIW?
nope.