CV-18 Fujian/003 CATOBAR carrier thread

[Jeff Head]

Fzgfzy has some fresh information regarding the Type 002:

~70,000 tons (likely standard displacement, which would mean 80,000+ tons full load), three catapults and two elevators. There's some speculation saying this is a sign that construction on the 002 is underway.

He also has another surprise for us:

~35,000-ton Landing Helicopter Dock with aft elevator. Make of this what you will...

EDIT: Forgot the

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I view both of thee as very preliminary in terms of the sketches.

Perhaps not the specifications, but certainly the sketches.

For the carrier, I am surprised that they have no spots for aircraft aft on the starboard side.

I am surprised that their first CATOBAR carrierr would go with only two elevators...and only three cats for that matter. I guess it depends on them wanting to keep the overall displacement below an abslute number perhaps...but the efficacy and sortie rate achievable with the 3 elevators, four cats, and the ability to spot aircraft have been worked out over decades by the US Navy and I would have expected those basic traits to have been transferred.

Anyhow, time will tell with the carrier.

As to the LHA/LHD, I believe that sketch also to be very preliminary.

Yes, the Juan Carlos and Canberras retain the aft large elevator even today like the Tarawa class, but again, the US Navy departed from that aft elevator for some very specific reasons, placing deck edge elevators, one n the starboard and one on the port side.

This all plays into sortie rates again gor the LHD/LHA vessels using VTOL aircraft and VTSLO aircraft and would expect the Chinese to adopt those characteristics if they wanted to gain htose incremental improvements.

Again...time will tell.

Nive to see some of these things from the big shrimps, but I still believe we will see some variance in the actual deck layouts over what we are seeing here.

But, that's just my opinion.

 

[Blitzo]

I view both of thee as very preliminary in terms of the sketches.

Perhaps not the specifications, but certainly the sketches.

Yes, I definitely would not take the sketches of anyone, including big shrimps, as gospel, unless they have actually seen construction of modules of a ship or seen an aircraft or other piece of hardware themselves.

Speculative sketches without having actually seen what something actually looks like presents too much room for artistic license, error and filling in certain blanks or leaving certain blanks open.

 

[steve_rolfe]

Regarding the sketches of the supposed 002 at the Chinese forum specified, i went through several pages there and found another sketch, as shown below. I find even using the internet translation tools, the text from Chinese to English doesn't make things much clearer, though what i read there seemed to suggest that apart from 002 Carrier, the 075 Amphibious ship, and the 054B Frigate project are also expected soon. Anyway just for reference here is the carrier sketch again, but with some aircraft added to the image.

 

[Equation]

Regarding the sketches of the supposed 002 at the Chinese forum specified, i went through several pages there and found another sketch, as shown below. I find even using the internet translation tools, the text from Chinese to English doesn't make things much clearer, though what i read there seemed to suggest that apart from 002 Carrier, the 075 Amphibious ship, and the 054B Frigate project are also expected soon. Anyway just for reference here is the carrier sketch again, but with some aircraft added to the image.View attachment 33316

All J-20s naval version? Oh my!

 

[Tyloe]

but that one looks heavily edited for some reason, like guess work. The original sketches look like either speculation, or just basic rendering to dodge censors.

 

[Blitzo]

Regarding the sketches of the supposed 002 at the Chinese forum specified, i went through several pages there and found another sketch, as shown below. I find even using the internet translation tools, the text from Chinese to English doesn't make things much clearer, though what i read there seemed to suggest that apart from 002 Carrier, the 075 Amphibious ship, and the 054B Frigate project are also expected soon. Anyway just for reference here is the carrier sketch again, but with some aircraft added to the image.View attachment 33316

Yes that is someone else's modification/addition to fzgfzy's original rough sketch.

Having the port flight deck overhang definitely makes more sense to me. But the point remains that we probably put too much stock into fzgfzy's drawing too much, or this edited one.

 

[Blackstone]

I am surprised that their first CATOBAR carrierr would go with only two elevators...and only three cats for that matter. I guess it depends on them wanting to keep the overall displacement below an abslute number perhaps...but the efficacy and sortie rate achievable with the 3 elevators, four cats, and the ability to spot aircraft have been worked out over decades by the US Navy and I would have expected those basic traits to have been transferred.

With precision munitions, guided by satellites and long-endurance UAVs, we're at a place where one strike fighter could produce results equating to squadrons of strike fighters before those advances. So, does having an extra elevator and a few more spotting space really make that much difference in all but peer to peer warfare? I doubt it. And if it comes down to that, one more elevator and a few more spotting space wouldn't make any difference against the Fords and Nimitzs supercarriers.

 

[Blitzo]

II am surprised that their first CATOBAR carrierr would go with only two elevators...and only three cats for that matter. I guess it depends on them wanting to keep the overall displacement below an abslute number perhaps...but the efficacy and sortie rate achievable with the 3 elevators, four cats, and the ability to spot aircraft have been worked out over decades by the US Navy and I would have expected those basic traits to have been transferred.

Size, complexity, power/steam/electricity demand would all likely have placed limitations on how many elevators and/or elevators they would have been willing to place on their first CATOBAR carrier ever.

While it would've been nice for the first CATOBAR carrier to have a similar configuration to Ford class, I also think we should consider that the Ford class is also a very large ship class itself and 002 was always going to be smaller anyway.

If the elevators are able to lift two fighters at once, and if it does have three cats (EM or steam), I think it would be a very competent first design of a CATOBAR carrier, especially one that is quite a bit smaller than USN's nuclear CVNs. Of course I would not be surprised for the Chinese Navy's eventual CVNs to be similar in size and configuration to the USN's supercarriers, but in the foreseeable future a three cat, 80k ton full displacement CV I think is quite a sensible design. Hell, even if it were only two catapults it would not be that bad.

 

[taxiya]

Not sure if any of you have read these red texts. If this is not a joke, you are believing a boy's words? How could he has any reliable intel? Unless his father is a personnel within the shipyard?

 

[Blitzo]

Not sure if any of you have read these red texts. If this is not a joke, you are believing a boy's words? How could he has any reliable intel? Unless his father is a personnel within the shipyard?
View attachment 33330

Well, fzgfzy posted those sketches with his post... and I doubt he is in high school.

He is fzgfzy so I think the gravity of his statements shouldn't come into doubt. Maybe we could ask what those words mean (are they an inside joke maybe?), or is it possible that he sketched them when he was in high school (lol), or whatever...

But like I said before, it is probably best practice to not take the sketches by anyone (including big shrimps) with too much faith.