CV-18 Fujian/003 CATOBAR carrier thread

[Deino]

According to "pb19980515" China might be pursuing two Type 003 (CATOBAR, non-nuclear) types before moving on to CVNs.

And as such it would support my list of designations !

 

[PanAsian]

US briefings about Chinese strategic thinking are best guesses at best, and pure projection/fantasy a lot of the time.

China has zero interest in persuing the kinds of missions and objectives that the USN does, but the PLAN is not developing in a vacuum.

Much of China’s leadership have always been suspicious of America, and with the US demonstrating such naked disregard for the much vaunted ‘rules based order’ they originally wrote and maintained, in favour of leveraging its economic might for zero sum gains at the expense of anyone not strong enough to resist or fight back, is it really such a stretch to think one needs to also build raw military might to deter the US from trying to achieve its political and economic objectives via the use of military force? I mean, it’s not like anything like that has ever happened to China before has it?

So even though China does not want to pursue similar missions as the USN, it still may need to build up a similar fleet in order to effectively deter, or even fight off American military adventurism.

With Chinese interests increasingly globalising, and China becoming ever more depending on overseas suppliers and markets, simply holding the home turf is increasingly looking like an insufficient hedge. Especially since any American economics driven military adventurism is unlikely to be directed at mainland China.

It’s not hard at all to think of scenarios where the CIA organise some Ukraine/Libya/Syria style regime change black ops in countries of significant economic and strategic important to China as a means of hurting China and/or profiting America.

Even the Russian intervention in Syria is serverly hamstrung by Russia’s lack of a strong navy. So when the US wants to bomb Syria, all they dare to do is shoot down the incoming missiles; when the US calls in artillery and air strikes on Russian irregulars, all they can do is downplay the losses.

Those are lessons China is drawing, and those are not the kinds of limitations the Chinese want to face if they ever have to defend their national interests abroad.

With a fleet able to go toe to toe with whatever the USN can muster, the Americans would have to be far more restrained in their actions. And if they step over the line, China will have far more options to respond without risking inviting a one-sided fight and likely public beating, as any Russian attempts to directly engage US forces in Syria would almost certainly lead to.

However carriers are not necessarily the answer when it comes to use of force, nor use of force the best answer. Your hypothetical scenario requires in the first place there to be third countries that either lean towards China or lean away from the US. And that's merely the first of many necessary ingredients over time for an intervention-friendly situation to develop.

Between when China shifts away from its current anti-intervention stance to one where it would consider its own intervention, or an anti-intervention-intervention, is going to be a period where China develops friendlier relationships with third countries to the point where the relationship itself, perhaps local basing, intelligence operations, or even the shaping of world opinion would be more efficient, effective, and proactive steps to forestall an intervention-friendly situation or make even a successful intervention a Pyrrhic victory.

 

[grulle]

When the Type 002 is commissioned, it will be the first time in history that a fully loaded Sukhoi will be catapulted from a carrier. These large, heavy birds have, arguably, the best airframe on the planet (other than the F-22 of course).

 

[SinoSoldier]

And as such it would support my list of designations !

Unfortunately he didn't list any designations. He mentioned (sort of implied, actually) that the PLAN's future carrier force will be in a "2 + 2 + 4" composition, probably meaning 2 STOBAR carriers, 2 CATOBAR non-nuclear carriers, and 4 CATOBAR nuclear carriers.

 

[taxiya]

Yeah I think to would be a logistics hassle but I think the Chinese would live with it rather than more expensive CVN. Maybe 002 would do the job with the accompanying logistics requirements

I may sound nit picking in words, but I think it is important to see the critical difference in strategic thinking.

One would have to live with some lacking or short coming, but one should never choose to live with it. When China has a vessel out in the ocean without possibility of constant and quick defense, China would have her neck extended to other's knife. It is simply not a choice. When China (it is happening as we speak) has ships going all over the world, having a constant Naval presence close to the sea lanes is a must to secure the trade.

Remember the

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in 1993? Back then, China had to live with it, and could "afford" to live with it because China did not have much sea based trade. Can you imagine today, when hundreds or thousands of Chinese merchant ships being arbitrarily stopped, blocked and harassed by some "world police" for fabricated reasons? This is like someone just grab your bread and leave you to starve. I lived through those times that Chinese has to live with whatever bullying, that was pain in the heart and guts, anger that has no way out. I don't want future Chinese to experience that again. And today's and tomorrow's Chinese must remember it so it won't happen again.

So yes, China must have the CVNs asap so long as the military and economy are well balanced (should not go to the other extreme like USSR).

 

[Intrepid]

The 3rd carrier will be conventional powered. May be, his sistership, too. But in the future all Chinese carriers will be nuclear powered. Nuclear powered aircraft carriers are at the end of development.

 

[Gustaf Adolf]

Are China currently building two type 002 at the same time?

 

[Deino]

Are China currently building two type 002 at the same time?

Why do you think so?

 

[Gustaf Adolf]

Why do you think so?

There were rumours that they would do so a couple years ago and then the article said that China had began steel cutting for the type 003 (CVN) last year. If China wants two type 002 I assume they build them before they start on the CVN. Or would they still build a non CVN after they have started on their first CVN?

 

[Intrepid]

There is confusion about the designation. Some say 001, 001A, 002, 003. Others count 001, 002, 003, 004. May be, that is the reason?

The 3rd carrier is conventional. The 4th carrier nobody knows ....